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NBA's Top 20 Players Right Now

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I think a few are over valuing Kyrie and i love his game.

He is probably around 10-13, but he has some holes, especially on defense and creating for other's (although the last few games might change that)

A few reasons why I think we are over valuing Kyrie. 1, he is our player, 2 he is the perfect compliment to Lebron so he is shining, and 3, he might be the best driver to the hole in the entire game becuase he is so stupid crafty with the ball and can score around the basket efficiently from so many angles.

I think this team is well constructed at the top with our big 3 fitting in, but its hard for me to put kyrie ahead of CP3, Curry, Westbrook, and Harden, and that is just the PG's.
 
It's tough making a top-20. Obviously it's subjective and opinions vary. I think Kyrie is a top-10 player, maybe I'm bias. But I put Harden, Curry, and Paul ahead of him. A lot of people probably would object if I didn't, but I think Harden is barely better honestly.

I agree; I just don't like the designation of Harden as a point guard, it makes little sense. If Harden is a "point guard" then so is LeBron James and hell, so is Kevin Durant.
 
I think a few are over valuing Kyrie and i love his game.

He is probably around 10-13, but he has some holes, especially on defense and creating for other's (although the last few games might change that)

A few reasons why I think we are over valuing Kyrie. 1, he is our player, 2 he is the perfect compliment to Lebron so he is shining, and 3, he might be the best driver to the hole in the entire game becuase he is so stupid crafty with the ball and can score around the basket efficiently from so many angles.

I think this team is well constructed at the top with our big 3 fitting in, but its hard for me to put kyrie ahead of CP3, Curry, Westbrook, and Harden, and that is just the PG's.

I can't think of 12 players better than Kyrie Irving.

I think if we take @godfather 's list as reference, a list I agree with; no one listed below Irving is better than him IMHO. Lillard was getting a lot of hype earlier in the season, but as I said it would be best to wait and see.. Looking at his numbers over time, it's obvious he's regressed towards the mean. I'm sure this will be an improvement year for him, but.. well, again, we'll see...

Chris Paul is playing great basketball right now, but, his minutes, usage and production while efficient, isn't necessarily translating into box score production (i.e., while having a 60% TS% only scoring 17 PPG and only taking 12.7 FGA?) let alone wins. There is correlation here between usage and efficiency and that has to be accounted for. I have Paul ahead of Irving though, without question, if only for purely his vision let alone superior defense.

Westbrook is an interesting case.

I've always liked Westbrook's game, even when he was highly criticized. But now I think he's being overly hyped.

Westbrook's efficiency has not increased (see Lillard's early start), so, the entirety of his increase in point production is caused by his increase in attempts: +6.1 FGA for Russell is giving him another 7.8 PPG. But Russ' eFG has remained ~46% this year and over his career, there is no change. Moreover, his true shooting percentage has actually gone down, going from 55% to 54% and (IMHO) likely will continue to dip as the season progresses.

His assist numbers are great on a per minute basis though; yet he's generating 5.5 turnovers in only 35 MPG. What the hell?

His rebounding is great though and always has been a strong suit for him.

But I just wonder if this is not a classic case of stats that are being "filled" by a great player surrounded by very few other players able to produce on the offensive end of the ball.

With respect to Harden, he doesn't play defense, and I'm not sure if his stats will ever translate into a successful playoff run. I say that because (1) playoff series are won by good defense, in a general sense; (2) Harden will almost assuredly end up defending (targeted in P&R) the opposing teams best player (Durant, Curry, Lillard, Paul) and be totally outmatched; (3) while Harden has a similar FTr% from the reg.season to the playoffs, the problem has always been when those calls get made.

See, a player that needs the whistle to be blown 5-10 times a game for him to score is probably less likely to have success in a playoff setting where "playoff" rules allow for "playoff contact." Meaning flops and running into people and phantom calls are far less likely in a close game; particularly against a team like the Warriors.

Curry was considered, two years running, the best PG in the game. Now that Durant is on the team; people are beginning to understand that there's only one basketball...

Kyrie Irving's stats are quite comparable to Steph Curry's this year. And isn't it funny how that happened when Curry had to play alongside Durant, while Irving has to play alongside the even more ball dominant LeBron James? Hmm..

Anyway... Not saying Irving is Top 5, and I'll grant the names on @godfather 's list, they make sense. But, I just wanted to add my observations as to why we shouldn't discount what Irving does...
 
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I agree; I just don't like the designation of Harden as a point guard, it makes little sense. If Harden is a "point guard" then so is LeBron James and hell, so is Kevin Durant.

Superstar guys like LeBron, Harden, Westbrook etc. just transcend positions. It's silly to put a label on them when they can do almost everything on the court.
 
I can't think of 12 players better than Kyrie Irving.

I think if we take @godfather 's list as reference, a list I agree with; no one listed below Irving is better than him IMHO.

That is probably the best list, I agree.

Only one i can see is maybe Jimmy Butler because he is such a great defender too.

But that leaves Kyrie at 11, and i fully believe Lebron is number 1 and still not a close 2nd.

So that gives us something like 1, 11 and 15 on the same team.

Also i think KAT becomes a top 10 player maybe as early as next year, but he is not now, not efficient enough of a scorer and not consistent enough yet on defense. But potentially he could be as good as Anthony Davis.
 
That is probably the best list, I agree.

Only one i can see is maybe Jimmy Butler because he is such a great defender too.

But that leaves Kyrie at 11, and i fully believe Lebron is number 1 and still not a close 2nd.

So that gives us something like 1, 11 and 15 on the same team.

Also i think KAT becomes a top 10 player maybe as early as next year, but he is not now, not efficient enough of a scorer and not consistent enough yet on defense. But potentially he could be as good as Anthony Davis.

I actually had Butler ahead, but changed it. I think Butler is really good, and I can see the case for him above Kyrie. I just think Kyrie is a more dynamic scorer, and has more of that X-factor, or whatever you want to call it.

By the way. I tried to make this list NOT being bias. Is Kyrie a little too high? Could be, but I think he honestly has a legit and good case.

I mean, if I'm putting him ahead of Davis, or Durant, then you know I'm being a serious homer.

But Kyrie is definitely on track with Curry. IMO. Curry and Harden I think are just slightly better at this point. Same with Paul. I think that group is all pretty close IMO.

Lillard just a tad below Kyrie. I tried to make it not so obvious that I'm just jumping on Kyrie's bandwagon given I think Lillard is very comparable to Kyrie IMO.

The players below, I really think he's better than with the exception of Butler being debatable (maybe I should have had Butler over Lillard). It was tough making that list, I probably could easily change my mind on quite a few of them.

I think Paul George is a tad overrated personally. I've always felt that way about him. I think he's really good, but I think Kyrie is better. Some might disagree, but I am taking Kyrie over him if given a choice.
 
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I actually had Butler ahead, but changed it. I think Butler is really good, and I can see the case for him above Kyrie. I just think Kyrie is a more dynamic scorer, and has more of that X-factor, or whatever you want to call it.

By the way. I tried to make this list NOT being bias. Is Kyrie a little too high? Could be, but I think he honestly has a legit and good case.

I mean, if I'm putting him ahead of Davis, or Durant, then you know I'm being a serious homer.

But Kyrie is definitely on track with Curry. IMO. Curry and Harden I think are just slightly better at this point. Same with Paul. I think that group is all pretty close IMO.

Lillard just a tad below Kyrie. I tried to make it not so obvious that I'm just jumping on Kyrie's bandwagon given I think Lillard is very comparable to Kyrie IMO.

The players below, I really think he's better than with the exception of Butler being debatable (maybe I should have had Butler over Lillard). It was tough making that list, I probably could easily change my mind on quite a few of them.

I think Paul George is a tad overrated personally. I've always felt that way about him. I think he's really good, but I think Kyrie is better. Some might disagree, but I am taking Kyrie over him if given a choice.

Honestly I think more people are higher on Lillard then me. He scores allot this year becuase that team is just not good, so i think he is being overrated. He isnt a great shooter, and really the only creator on the team too. (unless you count Plumlee)

Its all opinion and I think we agree on allot. I truly think Kyrie is the most dynamic scorer in the league, so the only people I would like more have better all around game.

Good job, put more thought into it than I was willing because i didnt come up with a list, lol.
 
Honestly I think more people are higher on Lillard then me. He scores allot this year becuase that team is just not good, so i think he is being overrated. He isnt a great shooter, and really the only creator on the team too. (unless you count Plumlee)

He's averaging 27 a game, while shooting at 45% clip, which is pretty impressive. Maybe not the greatest shooter, but I think he's entering his prime and proven to be one of the elite scorers. His team is just poorly built. But I think Kyrie is better. I don't think there's a real argument against that.

Its all opinion and I think we agree on allot. I truly think Kyrie is the most dynamic scorer in the league, so the only people I would like more have better all around game.

Good job, put more thought into it than I was willing because i didnt come up with a list, lol.

I think Kyrie needs to still improve on things like getting to the line more (he's doing that) and just continue to become a better defender, and work on his floor game which he's doing.

Not being a homer, but I think Kyrie can pass all the guards on the list. He's that talented. The only guys I don't ever see him passing is LeBron, Durant, and probably Davis and Greek Freak when they enter their primes.

But hey, it's always been more of big man's game. That's no knock on Kyrie. Some of those guys just have advantages being so much bigger.

Maybe KAT ends up being clearly better, but it's too early to call that one. I'm always skeptical on centers. You never know what can happen. Will he get hurt, etc.... And lot of the time they just don't have the same miles compared to a guard.
 
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I think Kyrie needs to still improve on things like getting to the line more (he's doing that) and just continue to become a better defender, and work on his floor game which he's doing.

Notice how much Irving gets to the line when either LeBron or Love sits? Pretty interesting isn't it?

One would almost think that refs are implicitly used to blowing the whistle within a range of instances per game, and also to some degree of balance between teams? But that would imply less than impartial officiating, heaven forbid.. :chuckle:

Suffice it to say, if there is a fixed range in which refs would feel comfortable calling fouls; then Love, Irving, and James would all need to share a piece of those calls, proportionally.
 
Its very difficult just to rank them. So, I have them in tiers.

Tier 1:- LeBron James.
Tier 2:- Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis.
Tier 3:- Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, Steph Curry, James Harden, Russell Westbrook.
Tier 4:- Paul George, Marc Gasol, Kyrie Irving, Jimmy Butler, Damian Lillard.
Tier 5:- Klay Thompson, DeMarcus Cousins, John Wall, Kevin Love, Blake Griffin.
Tier 6:- Draymond Green, DeMar DeRozan.


I know I have Paul George and Marc Gasol a bit high but I think Marc Gasol is immensely underrated. He has always been a solid scorer. Not explosive like Cousins, Love or Griffin but fairly solid. This season he looks like he has taking his scoring a notch above. And, he is an excellent passer. Possibly the best passing Center/Power Forward in the game. Defensively, he is up there with the best defensive bigs in the game. He doesn't have the blocks to show that but his ability as a rim-protector to alter shots and help defense is very good. Overall, if I have to draft a Center for a game, I would draft him over other Centers. I am not counting Anthony Davis as a Center.

I haven't included the likes of KAT, Porzingis and Greek Freak but that is because I feel we need to see a bit more from them. One and half odd seasons ain't enough. But in terms of talent and potential wise, all three along with Embiid are Top-10 calibre.
 
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Notice how much Irving gets to the line when either LeBron or Love sits? Pretty interesting isn't it?

One would almost think that refs are implicitly used to blowing the whistle within a range of instances per game, and also to some degree of balance between teams? But that would imply less than impartial officiating, heaven forbid.. :chuckle:

Suffice it to say, if there is a fixed range in which refs would feel comfortable calling fouls; then Love, Irving, and James would all need to share a piece of those calls, proportionally.

For some reason, he really doesn't always get the calls. He got clipped pretty bad a few times last night, and no call.

As Keys mention in another thread. I don't even feel Kyrie has REALLY got going yet either, and that's scary.

He's starting to see the floor so much better lately in all ways. Reading defenses so much better, finding teammates with more ease, and getting himself into scoring situations. And his numbers are all very impressive already.

I think Kyrie is due to go on a serious tear around January and we might be moving him above some people. I think he's turning the page though and ready to enter that other dimension. And that's pretty freaking exciting.
 
1) LeBron James




2) Russell Westbrook
3) Kevin Durant
4) Anthony Davis
5) Kawhi Leonard
6) James Harden

7) Stephen Curry
8) Greek Freak
9) Paul George
10) Chris Paul
11) Kyrie Irving
12) Jimmy Butler

13) Damian Lillard
14) DeMar DeRozan
15) Boogie Cousins
16) Blake Griffin
17) Marc Gasol
18) Kevin Love
19) John Wall
20) Draymond Green

21) Kyle Lowry
22) KAT
23) Gordon Hayward
24) Klay Thompson
25) LaMarcus Aldridge


I see the top-twenty in the NBA as four separate tiers. LeBron is all-alone as a "if he's on your team you are making the finals" level player. In the second tier, I view it as players that if they are on your team, you will make the playoffs and probably going to win at least one series. The tier-three guys are all players who, more than likely, would lead their teams to the playoffs. It's worth noting, on this list, I think both Kyrie and Gianni's will continue to vastly improve in the next three years. Those guys are two players who, if they aren't in the top two tiers in three years, something would have derailed them.

The fourth tier is guys who are incredibly talented, but, I don't see as able to lead their teams to the playoffs as the best player. They could all be the second best player on a championship team, but I don't see anything more than that.

The last five guys are all players who I think are nice pieces, and who probably could be the third best player on a championship team, but do not move the needle a significant enough amount to be ranked in the top-20.
 
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Supporting what @godfather just posted, there are a few players I have a huge boost due to upside before the end of the year... Kyrie is one of them. It's easy to forget he is only 24. If you hold his admittedly inconsistent defense against him, take a second look at where you rank Harden, Curry, Dame, Wall, Griffin, and Boogie. Those guys rely so heavily on the other four players on the floor for half of the game. On the flip side, I gave Lowry a huge boost for his defense as well as 45% three point shooting so far this year... daring him to shoot used to be the way you slowed Lowry down! And I'm still trying to figure out if Gasol is getting old or just surrounded by a weak supporting cast.
 
Anyway... Not saying Irving is Top 5, and I'll grant the names on @godfather 's list, they make sense. But, I just wanted to add my observations as to why we shouldn't discount what Irving does...
That, and Kyrie severely outplayed Steph when it counted when Steph was at the height of his power being the unanimous MVP and supposed best player in the league. I don't know if we want to give Steph the injury excuse or not, but either way, Kyrie is a big game player and that is worth a lot in my eyes. It is a rare breed, when we have seen the majority of the players on the list collapse when it matters most.
 

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