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2017 Browns Mock Draft Thread

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Except he didn't. Talked about his production coming out of conference. Didnt he have a bunch of his sacks this year against some no name ooc school?

This brings me back to the thing about him as a prospect, but it's more of a projection of upside due to his freakish physical attributes. Which is great and all, but would hardly make him the slamdunk megastar that everybody on this forum seems to be making him out to be.

I'm not sure how it's a projection if he's produced every season he's been on the field for a major college program. And it seems like everything you're saying could equally apply to Allen since the Alabama defense has been completely loaded with NFL talent and didn't allow teams to scheme against Allen as easily as they could with Garrett.

This isn't Barkevious Mingo where someone's going to be drafted on tools that could make them a good pass rusher in the future.
 
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I'm not sure how it's a projection if he's produced every season he's been on the field for a major college program. And it seems like everything you're saying could equally apply to Allen since the Alabama defense has been completely loaded with NFL talent and didn't allow teams to scheme against Allen as easily as they could with Garrett.

This isn't Barkevious Mingo where someone's going to be drafted on tools that could make them a good pass rusher in the future.

That's valid on Allen but are you reading the convo about the talent Garretts production came against?

I'm pretty much just regurgitating some issues people brought up with him, it's not my opinion, because I'm not an NFL Scout and therefore I'm not really comfortable acting like I know if a player is gonna be good or not.
 
Anyway, I doubt Michigan coaches are going to talk shit to NFL GMs because they missed his redzone offense against Florida State. :chuckle: And while it was fun to say he skipped the game, if that was indeed true, he put on a hell of a show to make everyone believe otherwise.

For real. If coaches are upset at Peppers for missing that game and are going to dog him for it, they have no business being references for college players. The game was one last opportunity for Peppers to showcase what he can do against a big time team. The kid was out there trying to play and then seen crying because he couldn't go. What are the coaches going to say about that? Peppers not playing that game is a non-factor.
 
That's valid on Allen but are you reading the convo about the talent Garretts production came against?

I'm pretty much just regurgitating some issues people brought up with him, it's not my opinion, because I'm not an NFL Scout and therefore I'm not really comfortable acting like I know if a player is gonna be good or not.

I understand the part about competition, but we're talking about a guy that played in a major conference. He's gotten it done for 3 years. I've seen him described as the best pass rusher (not projected future pass rusher) in CFB for the past two years and it's not like he was playing at North Dakota State.

When I see terms like "projection" and "upside" I associate that with raw prospects who are getting drafted off combine numbers or saw limited playing time in college etc. Obviously there's going to be some question marks for any draft prospect but both guys look like they should have a high floor in the NFL.
 
Seems like Garrett is more of a projection of upside. Is he a surefire star pass rusher? If he is I want him. If the thing about him being a projection is true I'll be nervous.

Nobody is a "surefire star pass rusher." Everyone is a projection because even if they produced in college, they're all moving up into a significantly higher class of competition.
 
Nobody is a "surefire star pass rusher." Everyone is a projection because even if they produced in college, they're all moving up into a significantly higher class of competition.

Ok, this is obvious. I think you know what we mean when we say "is this guy cant-miss?" And that is basically what I am asking.

If you ask scouts that and they hem and haw and bring up his physical attributes, I'm going Allen.
 
Ok, this is obvious. I think you know what we mean when we say "is this guy cant-miss?" And that is basically what I am asking.

I dunno -- I mean, I think the "can't miss" thing is wildly overused, and never really true. Garrett had the second highest sack total in Div. 1 over the last 3 years, so he clearly "produced" at the college level, and in the SEC at that. So what we're left with is projecting whether or not that production translates to the NFL.

I guess I just don't see a way around that.
 
Ok, this is obvious. I think you know what we mean when we say "is this guy cant-miss?" And that is basically what I am asking.

If you ask scouts that and they hem and haw and bring up his physical attributes, I'm going Allen.

Not that easy in my mind. If "can't miss" was a thing, that'd be swell, but it isn't.

If projecting Garrett based on his physical attributes is too intangible for you, how about imagining Jonathan Allen's production if he were on a less talented team than star-studded Alabama?

These are all projections and every organization needs to decide what approach they want to employ. And frankly it should be a mixture of production, physical attributes, and analysis of circumstance. It's an inexact science and that's why no one has perfected the art of the draft.

I get what you're saying, I just don't think it's as easy as taking a "sure-thing" vs a "project".
 
Not that easy in my mind. If "can't miss" was a thing, that'd be swell, but it isn't.

If projecting Garrett based on his physical attributes is too intangible for you, how about imagining Jonathan Allen's production if he were on a less talented team than star-studded Alabama?

These are all projections and every organization needs to decide what approach they want to employ. And frankly it should be a mixture of production, physical attributes, and analysis of circumstance. It's an inexact science and that's why no one has perfected the art of the draft.

I get what you're saying, I just don't think it's as easy as taking a "sure-thing" vs a "project".

Sure and this is all fine. I keep saying this, but I'm not an NFL Scout so I'm not touting my opinion as some kind of gospel. I'm more responding to the notion on this forum that Garrett is the way to go no doubt. It seems there are indeed some questions about him that need to be considered. If they are considered, and the browns feel like he is still there guy, I'm totally down with him. And obviously I'm sure they will do their job and all their due diligence.
 
I'm getting closer and closer to the realization that if it weren't for Myles Garrett, Jonathan Allen would also possibly have a claim to that "best in X number of years" label as well.

He's the most gifted 3-4 interior guy I've ever seen. Richard Seymour with more athleticism.


I still ride Garrett, that's my guy. But people love Allen because he's really really good.

Hall of Fame caliber good.
 
I'm getting closer and closer to the realization that if it weren't for Myles Garrett, Jonathan Allen would also possibly have a claim to that "best in X number of years" label as well.

He's the most gifted 3-4 interior guy I've ever seen. Richard Seymour with more athleticism.


I still ride Garrett, that's my guy. But people love Allen because he's really really good.

Hall of Fame caliber good.
What do you think is the cost to get from 12 to 2?

That would be one outrageous fucking draft if we pulled off both
 
What do you think is the cost to get from 12 to 2?

That would be one outrageous fucking draft if we pulled off both

Way too much.

12
33
51

Next year's 1st

Probably more.

There is too much defensive talent to lock in on Allen like that at that expense.

Jamal Adams
Derek Barnett
Malik Hooker
Malik McDowell
Reuben Foster

On and on and on
 
If you ask scouts that and they hem and haw and bring up his physical attributes, I'm going Allen.

This part is where the confusion is coming in from me. I haven't seen any of the guys who cover the draft focus on the physical attributes of Myles Garret. Everything I read is something along the lines of "one of or the best pass rusher in the nation AND a freak athlete."

Basically I'm just trying to figure out where this notion that Garrett going 1 overall would be based on projection, or at least more so than any other draft pick. Most scouts seem to be grading Garrett and Allen as 1-2 without a huge margin between them. The consensus seems to be Garrett being the better prospect so I would expect there to be some dissenting opinions like Phil Savage.
 
What do you think is the cost to get from 12 to 2?

That would be one outrageous fucking draft if we pulled off both


never, ever should we ever trade to move up to 2.

ONLY way I would be happy/okay with doing that is if there was a surefire, without a doubt, royal w/cheese franchise QB. And since there isn't one. We sit, do not make outrageous trades, and draft well.

This draft is just too deep with defensive talent that we need to keep our 2nd-4th + future picks.

But you are right, coming out with a Garrett + Allen combo is almost as good as a Dottie & Kit combo.
 

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