Tristan Thompson

[CleveRocks]

Watching reply of the game, how come Tristan didn't play much this game? He looked pretty good in the 1st quarter.

I think Zeller is improving faster with game time. But if you can explain how Donald Sloan is getting minutes over Jeremy Pargo, then you are a better man than I.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

Seemed like the Knicks went smaller, and Byron decided to go in the same direction. Some of it had to do with Novak's outside shooting in the first half, which no one was ready to deal with. Gibson played major minutes, and Thompson/Zeller played relatively limited minutes.

Yep, that's exactly what happened. There were numerous stretches throughout the second half where we went with a lineup of KI, Boobie, Sloan, and Gee as our 1-4. If Boobs wasn't shooting so poorly right now, we probably either win the game or force them out of that unit.

To the thread title, though, TT looked better finishing around the rim last night. Mind you, most of it was simple, but I have little doubt he misses a couple of those in the past. Hopefully he keeps it up because the garbage about us not needing him to be anything but a defender/rebounder will not work for the team. He needs to be able to at least do what he did last night...finish effectively when he's close.

....and the +/- continues to show why it's a garbage stat on the surface. It's far too dependant on too many variables to really accurately reflect on one guy without oodles and oodles of research showing the means to the end. Tyson Chandler agrees. He plays probably one of his best games of the season...incredible defense all night, rebounding, and scoring...and ends the night with the lowest +/- on his team(-8). It seems to me that certain players benefit largely from being on/off the floor with/against other players,and it terribly skews it to the point it cannot be used to accurately represent what one player does in comparison/contrast to another.

 

[Pioneer10]

....and the +/- continues to show why it's a garbage stat on the surface. It's far too dependant on too many variables to really accurately reflect on one guy without oodles and oodles of research showing the means to the end. Tyson Chandler agrees. He plays probably one of his best games of the season...incredible defense all night, rebounding, and scoring...and ends the night with the lowest +/- on his team(-8). It seems to me that certain players benefit largely from being on/off the floor with/against other players,and it terribly skews it to the point it cannot be used to accurately represent what one player does in comparison/contrast to another.

I agree that single game +/- states are close to useless but I think larger sample sizes (like a full season) is very useful. One game you have a large standard deviation but a whole season's worth of game causes the standard error to come down (i.e. people can win big on roll of the roulette wheel but over time the casino is going to win).

 

[KingDelonte13]

Sorry if posted before; table from the PD

Second season statistics
•Tristan Thompson (2012-13) 25 games/25 starts 8.2 points, 7.6 rebounds
•Anderson Varejao (2005-06) 48 games/4 starts 4.6 points, 4.9 rebounds
•J.J. Hickson (2009-10) 81 games/73 starts 8.5, 4.9


2011 draft picks (forwards) statistics this season
•No. 2 Derrick Williams, Minnesota 8.8 points, 4.7 rebounds
•No. 3 Enes Kanter, Utah 6.6 points, 4.0 rebounds
•No. 4 Tristan Thompson, Cleveland 8.2 points, 7.6 rebounds
•No. 5 Jonas Valancunius, Toronto (rookie this year) 8.0 points, 5.4 rebounds
•No. 6 Jan Vesely, Washington 1.9 points, 2.1 rebounds
•No. 7 Bismack Biyombo, Sacramento (traded to Charlotte) 4.6 points, 6.4 rebounds

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

Sorry if posted before; table from the PD

Completely worthless. If the PD wanted to establish some sort of legit comparison they would post the per36 numbers...but that wouldn't look very good for the hometown boy. What's the point of putting up per game stats when TT's minutes played are so much higher than the rest of these guys?

 

[Tornicade]

Completely worthless. If the PD wanted to establish some sort of legit comparison they would post the per36 numbers...but that wouldn't look very good for the hometown boy. What's the point of putting up per game stats when TT's minutes played are so much higher than the rest of these guys?

<old format Chart. >

not sure what your looking for. These are imagined statistics. not real production. Also Tristans stats are against starters, the rest outside of jv are against back ups.

all your doing is complaining about a snapshot showing actual production. Thompson certainly isnt being outclassed by anyone drafted around him

Edited to remove chart that no longer works

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

Completely worthless. If the PD wanted to establish some sort of legit comparison they would post the per36 numbers...but that wouldn't look very good for the hometown boy. What's the point of putting up per game stats when TT's minutes played are so much higher than the rest of these guys?

Plus, G. Public doesn't understand per36. The only measurable to the average fan that skims the PD is points, assists and rebounds.

 

[Jon]

....and the +/- continues to show why it's a garbage stat on the surface. It's far too dependant on too many variables to really accurately reflect on one guy without oodles and oodles of research showing the means to the end. Tyson Chandler agrees.

+/- did exactly what it's supposed to do. The Cavs' starters outplayed the Knicks' starters and the +/- numbers reflect that.

 

[narbar32]

Completely worthless. If the PD wanted to establish some sort of legit comparison they would post the per36 numbers...but that wouldn't look very good for the hometown boy. What's the point of putting up per game stats when TT's minutes played are so much higher than the rest of these guys?

PD didn't want to establish any sort of legit comparison, certainly not any more than does anybody else who is intending to support the notion that Tristan is a better basketball player than he really is.

Real observations from watching him play the game are the typically the last thing brought up in the arguments for Tristan being anything more than just another offensively limited, defensively competent, good enough rebounding PF in a world rife with similar players (the NBA). That's excepting the one play he has every once in a blue moon and orange slice where he somehow does something different (the ONE now famous post move from the summer or a dunk with one hand, for instance), which hyperbolically becomes the sign that the light is coming on for him.

+/- numbers are an obvious bullet point in the "pro" column for him. His raw tools (athleticism/explosiveness) are finally starting to be less exaggerated, but they're still oft-cited, particularly in combination with his age and the word "raw", which has somehow come to connote presumed future improvement in this context. Now revisionist history has seen his level of "rawness" become something that should have had informed viewers labeling him a 3-5 year project in the NBA, as though such a thing exists outside of possibly the 2nd round "the air up there" stashers, which is still arguable. Not only has the one-and-done rule cut into the time NBA entrants typically have to prove themselves before losing their "upside" label, but the examples condescendingly used to show how long it often takes for a guy to suddenly become good are just silly. There are thousands of players who started and stayed shitty or average for their careers, but the exceptional scenarios for a handful of players who struggled or were average early but then were good later (except for Darko, who stayed shitty), with one or two of them even being prematurely labeled busts, suddenly makes sense as support for the idea that Tristan was drafted with the hope that he would be one of those incredibly rare exceptions (AKA a 3-5 year project)? This is akin to using Tom Brady as support for why the Browns' next 6th round pick will be a HOF'er.

I wanted him to be our Andy-in-waiting. But Andy is incredibly unique, was unique the minute he stepped onto an NBA court even if he wasn't as effective back then, and Tristan is decidedly not-unique in this league.

So again... and again and again... we got a superstar and a middle of the road NBA player in that weak draft. And still not bad for the first draft after our previous superstar abandoned us.

 

[Jon]

Improvement should never be assumed, but neither should it be denied ... rather it should be tracked.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

Rk	Player	G	GS	MP	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS ▾
1	Derrick Williams	17	9	319	14.6	.403	1.2	3.7	.333	5.3	.745	2.1	6.9	9.0	0.9	0.3	1.4	2.4	1.9	16.9
2	Enes Kanter	25	1	381	12.2	.550	0.0	0.0		3.2	.647	4.2	5.3	9.4	0.8	0.8	1.2	3.5	4.5	15.5
3	Jonas Valanciunas	25	25	577	9.6	.513	0.0	0.1	.000	3.6	.707	3.2	5.2	8.4	1.7	0.5	1.9	2.2	4.7	12.4
4	Tristan Thompson	25	25	730	9.1	.459	0.0	0.0		3.2	.563	4.0	5.4	9.4	1.3	1.0	0.7	1.8	3.6	10.2
5	Bismack Biyombo	21	6	517	5.9	.494	0.0	0.0		2.0	.448	3.1	6.3	9.4	0.4	0.5	2.5	1.5	3.3	6.8
6	Jan Vesely	16	4	191	6.2	.424	0.0	0.0		2.8	.200	2.5	4.0	6.4	2.1	1.1	0.8	1.9	7.0	5.8

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not sure what your looking for. These are imagined statistics. not real production. Also Tristans stats are against starters, the rest outside of jv are against back ups.

all your doing is complaining about a snapshot showing actual production. Thompson certainly isnt being outclassed by anyone drafted around him

Ok, Torn. Gotcha. Per36 is pointless. And TT only plays against starters. Check. I wonder if it matters that TT never finishes close games anymore, either. Is that imaginary, as well? Cuz, ya know, the other teams do seem to always want to play their starting PF against us when it matters, strangely enough.

So, what you're saying is forget the fact that TT plays far more minutes than any of these other guys, and the fact that will always skew per game averages? OK, cool. Got it.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

Plus, G. Public doesn't understand per36. The only measurable to the average fan that skims the PD is points, assists and rebounds.

I can get on board with that....maybe I should have specified completely pointless to put on a message board with intelligent fans who understand otherwise. In the least, they still should have put up all the minutes played so even the average fan could see the correlation.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

+/- did exactly what it's supposed to do. The Cavs' starters outplayed the Knicks' starters and the +/- numbers reflect that.

Yep. Got it. Cuz starters only play with and against other starters. Thanks for the scoop.

 

[Jon]

Yep. Got it. Cuz starters only play with and against other starters. Thanks for the scoop.

lol?

 

[KingDelonte13]

Ok, Torn. Gotcha. Per36 is pointless. And TT only plays against starters. Check. I wonder if it matters that TT never finishes close games anymore, either. Is that imaginary, as well? Cuz, ya know, the other teams do seem to always want to play their starting PF against us when it matters, strangely enough.

So, what you're saying is forget the fact that TT plays far more minutes than any of these other guys, and the fact that will always skew per game averages? OK, cool. Got it.

Ok dude. The fact of the matter remains that none of the bigs drafted around TT are exactly setting the world on fire. I don't think anybody else is reading anything other than that into these numbers.