Top 20 NBA players 2017-2018

[blommen]

So, I decided to listen to Bill Simmons Podcast (god help me), where they tried to rank the 20 best players in the league, and while I didn't agree with a lot of it, it did inspire me to try and do the same, which was really fucking difficult.

Basically, the only part of the list that I'm 100% confident in is the top 2, maybe top 3. every one from 4-8 I'm super shaky on, and no matter who I put at number 8 I end up feeling dirty.

Top 20 NBA players

1. LeBron James

2. Kevin Durant

3. James Harden

4. Steph Curry

5. Giannis Antetokuompo

6. Kawhi Leonard

7. Russell Westbrook

8. Anthony Davis

9. DeMarcus Cousins

10. Kyrie Irving

11. John Wall

12. Karl Anthony Towns

13. Kristaps Porzingis

14. Paul George

15. Jimmy Butler

16. Draymond Green

17. Marc Gasol

18. Joel Embiid

19. Chris Paul

20. Nikola Jokic

We had one of these last year and it sparked some interesting discussion, so have at it, RCF! Who are your top 20 players right now?

 

[Randolphkeys]

I'd like to start this response by saying it's not Kyrie's fault he is more productive now that he is in a major media market. His defensive intensity is better for the regular season, but he is the same guy. I'm glad he is trying during the regular season this year, and I'm sure the major media market calls help. Enjoy them, Kyrie. I thought you were top 15 in a smaller media market without the bullshit calls going your way.

1.LeBron James

2. Giannis Antetokuompo

3. Kawhi Leonard

4. Steph Curry

5. James Harden

6. Anthony Davis

7. DeMarcus Cousins

8. Kevin Durant

9. Kyrie Irving

10. Nikola Jokic

11. Kristaps Porzingis

12. Karl Anthony Towns

13. Russell Westbrook

14. Paul George

15. Kemba Walker

16. Draymond Green

17. Damian Lillard

18. Victor Oladipo

19. Chris Paul

20. Marc Gasol

 

[blommen]

I'd like to start this response by saying it's not Kyrie's fault he is more productive now that he is in a major media market. His defensive intensity is better for the regular season, but he is the same guy. I'm glad he is trying during the regular season this year, and I'm sure the major media market calls help. Enjoy them, Kyrie. I thought you were top 15 in a smaller media market without the bullshit calls going your way.

1.LeBron James

2. Giannis Antetokuompo

3. Kawhi Leonard

4. Steph Curry

5. James Harden

6. Anthony Davis

7. DeMarcus Cousins

8. Kevin Durant

9. Kyrie Irving

10. Nikola Jokic

11. Kristaps Porzingis

12. Karl Anthony Towns

13. Russell Westbrook

14. Paul George

15. Kemba Walker

16. Draymond Green

17. Damian Lillard

18. Victor Oladipo

19. Chris Paul

20. Marc Gasol

Agreed on Kyrie, my opinion on his game hasn't changed a lot since last season in terms of where I rank him. He's somewhere around #10, largely on the back of probably being the most skilled scorer in the league and the most clutch scorer to boot. The defensive intensity is nice but it doesn't change a lot to me.

Kinda surprised at no Jimmy Butler, what made you leave him out and guys like George and 'Dipo in?

 

[Rich]

Same criteria I used last year: If I had to pick a player for one season only to win a title this year. So just because I have a guy ranked ahead of another guy doesn't mean I think he'll be the MVP or whatever. Like, right now, It's James Harden by a wide margin, but he won't be number 1 for me.

1. LeBron James

2. Kawhi Leonard

3. James Harden

4. Giannis Antetokuompo

5. Steph Curry

6. Kevin Durant

7. Russell Westbrook

8. Anthony Davis

9. DeMarcus Cousins

10. Joel Embiid

11. Nikola Jokic

12. Kristaps Porzingis

13. Kyrie Irving

14. Karl Anthony Towns

15. John Wall

16. Draymond Green

17. Damian Lillard

18. Paul George

19. Kevin Love

20. Ben Simmons

Injuries matter. Gordon Hayward is a top 15 player to me. Jimmy Butler will find his way back on this list by the end of the year, I feel. Right now Wiggins is just taking too many shots away from both he and Towns. They need to fix that problem.

Trying not to be a homer with Love. He's currently ranked 21st in PER, and when you take out the low minute guys like Willie Reed, David West, and a couple of others, he's higher, so I don't think including him is being homerish. Think a decent case can be made he's been better than Draymond this year, but again, this is a list of who I'd take for one year only if I were trying to win a title. And I'm taking Draymond over Kevin 10 times outta 10 with those parameters.

 

[blommen]

Same criteria I used last year: If I had to pick a player for one season only to win a title this year. So just because I have a guy ranked ahead of another guy doesn't mean I think he'll be the MVP or whatever. Like, right now, It's James Harden by a wide margin, but he won't be number 1 for me.

1. LeBron James

2. Kawhi Leonard

3. James Harden

4. Giannis Antetokuompo

5. Steph Curry

6. Kevin Durant

7. Russell Westbrook

8. Anthony Davis

9. DeMarcus Cousins

10. Joel Embiid

11. Nikola Jokic

12. Kristaps Porzingis

13. Kyrie Irving

14. Karl Anthony Towns

15. John Wall

16. Draymond Green

17. Damian Lillard

18. Paul George

19. Kevin Love

20. Ben Simmons

Injuries matter. Gordon Hayward is a top 15 player to me. Jimmy Butler will find his way back on this list by the end of the year, I feel. Right now Wiggins is just taking too many shots away from both he and Towns. They need to fix that problem.

Trying not to be a homer with Love. He's currently ranked 21st in PER, and when you take out the low minute guys like Willie Reed, David West, and a couple of others, he's higher, so I don't think including him is being homerish. Think a decent case can be made he's been better than Draymond this year, but again, this is a list of who I'd take for one year only if I were trying to win a title. And I'm taking Draymond over Kevin 10 times outta 10 with those parameters.

Starting to think I have Jokic ranked way too low, lol. I still haven't seen him play a lot but he's obviously a unique kind of talent.

Draymond is difficult for me to rank because he's so obviously benefitting from playing on the Warriors with all that talent, and I don't think he's the kind of guy who could lead a team to a .500 record in the west as the first option like Love, but at the same time he just has so many intangibles going for him and his record speaks for itself. I just really wonder what he would like on literally any other team where he would be asked to be more of a primary option/shot creator.

Simmons just barely missed my list, simply because I have a hard time putting a guy with absolutely no perimeter shot up that high, regardless of everything else he does. He's so damn amazing with the ball in his hands and he's probably the closest we've come to a new LBJ since... well, LBJ. He has problems being effective without Embiid on the court, so I'll use that as my excuse for keeping off for now, but it's kinda nitpicking. He's still a rookie and being a top 25-30 player that quickly is still really impressive to me.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Kinda surprised at no Jimmy Butler, what made you leave him out and guys like George and 'Dipo in?

I tried to honor the players who have been really good this season. This time last year I wouldn't have put Oladipo on my top 50, but he is crushing it this year on both ends. As of right now, Jimmy Butler has been passive. He would have made my top 25. By the end of the year, I hope he and Isaiah would crack the top 20.

 

[czvo]

KAT is getting way too much love when you consider how fucking terrible his defense is.

 

[godfather]

1.) LeBron James

2.) Kevin Durant

3.) Kawhi Leonard

4.) Steph Curry.

5.) Giannis Antetokuompo

6.) James Harden

7.) Anthony Davis

8.) Kristaps Porzingis

9.) Kyrie Irving

10.) Joel Embiid

11.) Russell Westbrook

12.) John Wall

13.) Nikola Jokic

14.) DeMarcus Cousins

15.) Chris Paul

16.) Karl Anthony Towns

17.) Paul George

18.) Draymond Green

19.) Kevin Love

20.) Ben Simmons


Dead last: LaVar Ball.


I think Kyrie is better than Westbrook. There, I said it. I know, how crazy.

I'm just not a big Westbrook fan. I think he's a better talent, no question. His inefficiency just really makes me not a fan of his.

 

[blommen]

KAT is getting way too much love when you consider how fucking terrible his defense is.

You're probably right but offensively he's just so potentially transcendent to me that I just... I can't help but rate him so high. The defense is frustrating because he has all the tools to be an absolute nightmare on that end with how quick and long he is, but it just isn't getting there.

 

[Rich]

I'd love to see JOkic dropped into another team full of shooters. I feel his game translates across systems. Like if you put him Golden State he could average 10 assists a game or something crazy.

 

[Rich]

BTW if you're doing this just off of this season and nothing more, who has been the best in these 15-20 games, Clint Capela is probably borderline top 25. He's been better than Rudy Gobert, and on the whole, almost as good as KAT.

 

[Randolphkeys]

KAT is really really good and is just scratching the surface. For all the criticism of his defense he's also blocked one more shot than Draymond at the time of this post. Once he becomes equally good defending the perimeter, watch out.

 

[godfather]

BTW if you're doing this just off of this season and nothing more, who has been the best in these 15-20 games, Clint Capela is probably borderline top 25. He's been better than Rudy Gobert, and on the whole, almost as good as KAT.

Pretty down on Gobert. I thought he'd take the next level. Was a big fan.


Agree, I said before the season started that Capela would turn into an all-star center.

Still just 23....

If I were considering moving the Brooklyn pick for a player. Not that I think he'd be available.

 

[Rich]

Pretty down on Gobert. I thought he'd take the next level. Was a big fan.


Agree, I said before the season started that Capela would turn into an all-star center.

Still just 23....

If I were considering moving the Brooklyn pick for a player. Not that I think he'd be available.

Gobert took his leap. He's one the best defensive players in the world.

He's having a bit of slump, but that's all it is.

 

[czvo]

Same criteria I used last year: If I had to pick a player for one season only to win a title this year. So just because I have a guy ranked ahead of another guy doesn't mean I think he'll be the MVP or whatever. Like, right now, It's James Harden by a wide margin, but he won't be number 1 for me.

1. LeBron James

2. Kawhi Leonard

3. James Harden

4. Giannis Antetokuompo

5. Steph Curry

6. Kevin Durant

7. Russell Westbrook

8. Anthony Davis

9. DeMarcus Cousins

10. Joel Embiid

11. Nikola Jokic

12. Kristaps Porzingis

13. Kyrie Irving

14. Karl Anthony Towns

15. John Wall

16. Draymond Green

17. Damian Lillard

18. Paul George

19. Kevin Love

20. Ben Simmons

Injuries matter. Gordon Hayward is a top 15 player to me. Jimmy Butler will find his way back on this list by the end of the year, I feel. Right now Wiggins is just taking too many shots away from both he and Towns. They need to fix that problem.

Trying not to be a homer with Love. He's currently ranked 21st in PER, and when you take out the low minute guys like Willie Reed, David West, and a couple of others, he's higher, so I don't think including him is being homerish. Think a decent case can be made he's been better than Draymond this year, but again, this is a list of who I'd take for one year only if I were trying to win a title. And I'm taking Draymond over Kevin 10 times outta 10 with those parameters.

I like this reasoning, and I'll go one further and add the caveat that it matters how easy it is to build around you. With that in mind...

1. LeBron
2. Kawhi
3. KD
4. Harden
5. Russell
6. Giannis
7. Curry
8. AD
9. Porzingis
10. Chris Paul
11. Paul George
12. Jimmy Butler
13. John Wall
14. Joel Embiid
15. DeMarcus Cousins
16. Nikola Jokic
17. Kyrie Irving
18. Draymond Green
19. Blake Griffin
20. Karl-Anthony Towns


The first six are probably the easiest guys to build around in the league. LeBron, KD and Kawhi are all guys that can defend multiple positions at high levels, create their own shots, and create for others. Harden, Russ and Giannis can do two of those three things.

Once you get past those six, it gets a little dicey. Steph can't defend multiple positions at a high level, but he can control an offense with the best of them. AD and Porzingis may not have the shot creation chops of Steph, but they both have defensive ability he doesn't.

CP3 can't defend multiple positions, but he can get his own shot, create for others and defend his position. That lack of positional versatility, however, is what puts him behind the others. PG and Jimmy Butler have the ability to score, and they can defend multiple positions, but they aren't guys that can control the game the way Paul can.

Wall has focus issues on the defensive end, but he's a point guard maestro.

Then you get the run of bigs. Embiid, Cousins, Jokic... take your pick. I like Embiid just a tad more than the other two because of his defensive ability, and Cousins gets the nod on Jokic because of his scoring prowess.

Kyrie is a tough one to peg, still. He's great at getting his own, but he's not the creator for others that those in front of him are. He's also a little tougher to build around because you need to surround him with plus defenders at almost every position.

Draymond gets hurt because he isn't a guy you can give the ball to and say "get me a bucket." He's a GREAT cog in the system, but he can't be the system. However, his defensive ability puts him just ahead of Blake, who I think you CAN make the system. When he's not surrounded by dogshit guards and wings, he can still get you wins.

Finally, KAT. I really think there's a case to be made for four or five players to be in front of him (IT, Hayward, Love, Millsap... all have health concerns. Lillard, Kemba and Lowry come to mind). I'm very low on his defense and he's not a guy who creates for others. It's possible I'd rank Simmons ahead of him by the end of the year.