2017-18 Cleveland Indians Offseason

[Stark]

As for losing Brian Shaw...good riddance. The team is much better without him Shaw had the 9th worst ERA out of the bullpen last season.

This is incredibly lazy and incorrect analysis.

Tyler Olson had the best ERA of our relievers last year. Time to ship off Miller so we can get ready to pay him the big bucks.

This team will miss Shaw when Tito is pitching Zach McAllister five out of six games.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

one of the best relievers in baseball is nauseating as well.

So I think the Indians will miss Shaw this season but one of the best relievers in baseball? What are you doing, a top 50 list? He was the 7th or 8th best reliever of both teams in our series with the Yankees this year. Now those are two great bullpens, but one of the best relievers in baseball is a massive over exaggeration

 

[Real Deal]

This is incredibly lazy and incorrect analysis.

Tyler Olson had the best ERA of our relievers last year. Time to ship off Miller so we can get ready to pay him the big bucks.

This team will miss Shaw when Tito is pitching Zach McAllister five out of six games.

Z-Mach in Shaw's role is the scariest thing heading into the season, Indians will be looking for bullpen help during the season.

 

[CavsFanJapan]

Z-Mach in Shaw's role is the scariest thing heading into the season, Indians will be looking for bullpen help during the season.

If Z-Mach could acquire one good off speed pitch to go with that FB, I wouldn’t worry as much but yes, it is scary.

 

[AMC]

Rays DFA Corey Dickerson.

Where ya @ Indians?

 

[MirORich]

 

[sportscoach]

Rays DFA Corey Dickerson.

Where ya @ Indians?

I do not get this move at all, so there is something going on here behind the scenes! We shall see what happens in the next few days with him.

So I think the Indians will miss Shaw this season but one of the best relievers in baseball? What are you doing, a top 50 list? He was the 7th or 8th best reliever of both teams in our series with the Yankees this year. Now those are two great bullpens, but one of the best relievers in baseball is a massive over exaggeration

How many other relief pitchers in baseball do you know that pitch in 70+ innings in mostly high pressure situations with a 3ish ERA? That is rare in the current era and I think haters will see what he really meant to the team in due time.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Well most relief pitchers don’t pitch 70+ innings, but that also doesn’t make Shaw one of the best because of high volume. There’s a long list of relievers better than Brian Shaw. But I agree we will miss him this year

 

[sportscoach]

Well most relief pitchers don’t pitch 70+ innings, but that also doesn’t make Shaw one of the best because of high volume. There’s a long list of relievers better than Brian Shaw. But I agree we will miss him this year

His FIP and other stats were actually really good last season overall. He is underrated in my mind cause of the fan bases hate for him. Majority of the pitchers with better numbers always come in clean innings and the same type of situations. He will end an inning and start in inning and do a good job at it. No he isnt the most dominant guy in the world, but there is only a handful around baseball that actually do the things he does. Luckily we have a strong bullpen to begin with

We at least agree on the missing him part. I am hoping other guys will step up and cover some of the things he was doing for us. Can Goody and Olson repeat last year? Are we going to find someone out of nowhere again to fill in roles?

 

[thestatman]

This is incredibly lazy and incorrect analysis.

Tyler Olson had the best ERA of our relievers last year. Time to ship off Miller so we can get ready to pay him the big bucks.

This team will miss Shaw when Tito is pitching Zach McAllister five out of six games.

Lazy and incorrect? Shaw's ERA was 3.52 last season...McCallister's ERA was 2.61. Any other "incorrect" information required?

Also...over the past 3 years ZMac has a better ERA than gas can BS. Shaw had no business making the playoff roster while ZMac (2.61). Goody (2.80) and Otero (2.85) were shelved.

Just because Francona over used him doesn't change the fact he was the 9th worst reliever on the staff. Numbers don't lie.

Good riddance Shaw.

 

[thestatman]

I do not get this move at all, so there is something going on here behind the scenes! We shall see what happens in the next few days with him.



How many other relief pitchers in baseball do you know that pitch in 70+ innings in mostly high pressure situations with a 3ish ERA? That is rare in the current era and I think haters will see what he really meant to the team in due time.

Apologizing for Shaw...ridiculous. He had no business pitching all those innings. Nth worst reliever on the team.

 

[sportscoach]

Lazy and incorrect? Shaw's ERA was 3.52 last season...McCallister's ERA was 2.61. Any other "incorrect" information required?

Also...over the past 3 years ZMac has a better ERA than gas can BS. Shaw had no business making the playoff roster while ZMac (2.61). Goody (2.80) and Otero (2.85) were shelved.

Just because Francona over used him doesn't change the fact he was the 9th worst reliever on the staff. Numbers don't lie.

Good riddance Shaw.

I am not sure how he had the 9th worst reliever on the staff, when Merritt is a starter, which makes him have the 8th worst ERA so get that part right. Also he was apart of one of the best pitching staffs statistically baseball has ever seen. This pitching staff is Cooperstown numbers good and still will be next season regardless especially if guys like Salazar stay healthy.

Also Shaw was second on the team in holds, had the most inherited runners, second on the team when it came to ground ball outs, tied for second for forcing the most ground ball double plays on the roster and most in all of MLB for a reliever.

Now onto another stat His FIP was also sub 3 at 2.96 while his era was 3.52, which usually says he was pitching better than his ERA indicated. Everyone else you mentioned had ZMac (3.77) Goody (3.45) Otero (3.64) Guys like Miller 1.44 ERA to 1.99 FIP, Allen had 2.94 ERA to a 3.19 FIP. (Shaw usually has a worse FIP than ERA and this seasons was actually extremely good)

https://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/fip/

The league's FIP overall in 2017 was an average of 4.36, so our entire staff was a at Average or above average including Tomlin.

Now since you have a name that says you are into stats, what does that say to you?

I dont look at just ERA, and for baseball, they have so many stats its not funny. If you are going to say you are a statman and post in a baseball forum, you better be able to put up some stats.

 

[Stark]

Lazy and incorrect? Shaw's ERA was 3.52 last season...McCallister's ERA was 2.61. Any other "incorrect" information required?

Also...over the past 3 years ZMac has a better ERA than gas can BS. Shaw had no business making the playoff roster while ZMac (2.61). Goody (2.80) and Otero (2.85) were shelved.

Just because Francona over used him doesn't change the fact he was the 9th worst reliever on the staff. Numbers don't lie.

Good riddance Shaw.

Oy. If you’re going to base everything off of only ERA, then this isn’t worth my time. That’s borderline elementary.

That’s like saying Austin Jackson was on par with Ramirez because they both hit .318 and was a far superior hitter than Lindor, who hit .273.

There’s far more that goes into a pitchers effectiveness than just ERA, and looking at just that number in a blanket is frankly pretty hilarious for somebody who calls themselves “thestatman”.

@sportscoach did a pretty solid job wrapping up my thoughts above, but I’ll go into it even more if you need me to.

 

[Real Deal]

Oh boy... ERA is heavily valued... what's next Batting Average?

I had my issues with Shaw, because he was shaky and forced me to wear a diaper, but let's not sit here and talk ERA when discussing pitchers.

 

[CBBI]

@thestatman putting on an absolute master class in trolling in this section.

Incorporating his username into the troll is high end.