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Theoretically Ante Zizic

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He is somewhat useful now with Love out. From what I’ve seen, he looks like he may develop into a pretty decent offensive player. Once Love is back, he’ll be of some use for limited minutes off the bench, but at this point the only positive or neutral impact games he has will be the ones where he finishes at a very high rate.

His game at this point doesn’t seem tailored to the present NBA where you’d love your center to be a great rim protector, great passer, and pretty much needs to finish almost everything or be able to step out and hit a 3 enough to keep them honest. He only checks like one of those boxes at the moment.
 
Like I said earlier, he reminds me of a young paul pierce.
 
One scouting report I read after the Cavs got him gave him an upside of Marc Gasol - and I think that is very possible. He's ahead of Gasol at 21. I'd also say the Zizic is already a better rebounder than Gasol, but Gasol is way ahead on defense. Gasol has more range as a shooter as well, something I think Zizic can develop.

He's still young and not done growing. He already is a rotational quality player that can play 15 minutes and not get the team in any real trouble most of the time. His time as nearly doubled in his last 7 games played - playing over 13 minutes per game. His PER36 during that time is 21.22 PPG, 10.48 RPG, and 2.69 BPG. More playing time has not diminished his PER36 averages much and has increased his scoring.

He certainly has things to learn, especially on defense where he is inconsistent, but the effort it there. He already is really at throwing screens on offense and if you get it to him anywhere near the rim, the points are pretty much guaranteed. Guy is shooting 81% over the last 7 games. He's our fourth most efficient player behind LBJ, Love, and Nance. And we haven't even fully explored the upside that could come as he grows as a player.

Right now, it appears that Koby knew what he was doing when he asked for him. Not shocked, since international scouting has been his thing. We also know Cedi has a lot of potential to grow as well. Hopefully Koby's skill evaluating talent extends to collegiate talent in the draft as well. This team may be getting a lot younger with a ton of good players with a lot of upside.
 
His game at this point doesn’t seem tailored to the present NBA where you’d love your center to be a great rim protector, great passer, and pretty much needs to finish almost everything or be able to step out and hit a 3 enough to keep them honest. He only checks like one of those boxes at the moment.

Everyone would love a center like that, but I don't know if there's anyone in the entire league who fits that description.

He can be very useful defensively against larger centers, and sometimes for creating mismatches against smaller lineups. He's going to need more playing time to develop into a more well-rounded player, and a starter.
 
Everyone would love a center like that, but I don't know if there's anyone in the entire league who fits that description.

He can be very useful defensively against larger centers, and sometimes for creating mismatches against smaller lineups. He's going to need more playing time to develop into a more well-rounded player, and a starter.


Agree. If it came off like I don’t like him, I do. It’s just that you need to check off a few of those boxes before becoming a guy who is useful beyond situationally. On this particular team, he’ll be situational at best because of how pourous our defense already is. Once Love is back, points are never our problem, and he only is useful against other teams with slowish bigs at the moment. His first few appearances, it felt like teams went inside less when he was in because a big man has a psychological impact and gives you pause, but the NBA exposes incomplete players quickly. Still, he can become a really useful player going forward if keeps working.
 
Holy hell what an awful take.

A few years away from being a fourth big on a contender? Using only +/- from ONE game when the guy has a 22.6 PER, 71.0 TS%, 7.2 BLK%, and per-36 numbers of 18 PPG, 11 RPG, and 3 BPG?

You have him being a few years away from being nothing more than 4th big on a contender when he's doing all of that at 21, is oozing potential, and is playing with LeBron James, the guy that turned J.J. fucking stonehands Hickson into an NBA guy?

Jesus, I try to respect people's opinions and views on here, because trust me, there are a lot of people on here I don't agree with but I still respect, but actually get outta here with that garbage. Just lazy and uneducated analysis.
J.J. Hickson is your example ? Also I said 3rd or 4th. 3rd meaning 1st big off the bench in case you don’t understand what that means . Cavs draft a big whom will Zizic surpass ? Love ? Nance ? Top draft pick ? Please tell me .
 
On the very limited minutes I watched him, my impression is he will be playing in the NBA for a while as long as he stays healthy and plays with the same intensity... he's still young and a lot to learn but you could see he plays hard (runs the floor, set screen, box out & little chippiness) and the thing lots of centers missing now he cuts well and catch hard passes... really hope he develops with the Cavs, he would atleast be a nice 7 foot backup center, something the Cavs havent had for a while...
 
J.J. Hickson is your example ? Also I said 3rd or 4th. 3rd meaning 1st big off the bench in case you don’t understand what that means . Cavs draft a big whom will Zizic surpass ? Love ? Nance ? Top draft pick ? Please tell me .

Did you mean this 3rd/4th big this year or in the future? I took it as a 3rd/4th big at best in the future...maybe I was mistaken.

Also, Nance is not a Center.

Regardless, my problem is that your posts consistently look like they are intended to cause a fuss. No real insight or point.

Here is what you said after Ante was scratched off the starting lineup against the Blazers:

Zizic informed Lue he was scared to start .. wow !!

Here is Ante's interview after the Bulls game...he was clearly very excited to get the nod as a starter. Your post quite frankly was bs.

Also, Ante cracks me up and I have no idea why no one talks about his hairline.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ink94LC8yQ




Here is your quotes about Cedi that are all from different dates.

As I mentioned prior to the ASB , Cedi’s slide to the end of the bench will happen sooner rather than later . Just something about his game/body language that seems uncomfortable .

As I mentioned during the ASB , Cedi will be phased out and slowly worked down to 9-10 man off the bench role. Hood starting tonight in his place . Go move imo

Then you replied to your own comment:

This guy knew what he talking about . Cedi on the bench worked perfect tonight . Good call dude .

Cedi’s slow progression towards 9-10th man will be in full swing once Love returns. If it’s not already .Green goobling up most his minutes . As I predicted during the ASB . Go ahead and disagree all you want , it’s the truth .

And to wrap it all up:

This is pathetic for him to advertise his own interview and his cheesy cover pics. Cedi is a fringe NBA player with a 2 year window to prove otherwise .

I mean...come on man. What the heck are you even doing?
 
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Ante looked great and showed up the d a lot. They still aren't moving well on offense without Jose. There are some nice flashes from Ante right now. I'd give him some run. I don't see him being very useful against certain teams, but Toronto is one he could be very useful against.
 
J.J. Hickson is your example ? Also I said 3rd or 4th. 3rd meaning 1st big off the bench in case you don’t understand what that means . Cavs draft a big whom will Zizic surpass ? Love ? Nance ? Top draft pick ? Please tell me .

Few things here, try to keep up.

3rd meaning 1st big off the bench in case you don’t understand what that means

#1) Don't try to spar with me or patronize me like that. You'll lose and it makes your already horrible point look even worse when you have to stoop to that garbage.

J.J. Hickson is your example ?

#2) Yes. J.J. "Stonehands" Hickson. A guy that legitimately would not have had a career if not for LeBron James. LeBron made him into a serviceable big man for a few seasons. Zizic is infinitely more talented than Hickson and LeBron is a better facilitator in 2018 than he was in 2009.

#3) You originally said and I directly quote "He’s stil few years away from being anything more than a 3-4th big on a contending team ." and then when I call you out on that, you then choose to narrow it down to just the Cavaliers to help reinforce your point. Plus, Zizic in three years could easily be better than Larry Nance, if you want to cop yourself out and limit to strictly Cavalier discussion.


Let me give you some advice since you're still new around here: going into threads and posting intentionally antagonizing posts about our two young and highly regarded players, both who have dramatically overachieved despite the best efforts by our coaching staff to limit them.

If you're going to go against the grain, then try to back yourself up a bit better instead of using +/- stats from one game to determine the next three years of a player's career. Stuff like that makes you a laughingstock that nobody here will take seriously.
 
It's fine to disagree. We like that here.

Do it without making people hate you please. We don't really want that on the board
 
He's a good backup big right now, as a rookie. I have no idea what his ceiling is, he is solid at a lot of things but doesn't appear to have any transcendent skills to become a star, but I'm really enjoying watching the nuts and bolts of the center position played right for a change. He has a very good basketball IQ, a mean streak, good enough hands so he can catch and finish. It should be fun next year when he is hopefully in true NBA shape to play some more minutes and sustain his intensity every minute he is in there.

His ceiling is basically being Marc Gasol offensiely IMO. That's a perfect world, best case, everything goes right and he gets every break and has an elite work ethic and meets the right developmental people at the right time and plays in the right situation. He has a LOT of Gasol in his game especially if you compare them year by year (when Gasol was 20,21,etc). Maybe the one thing Gasol has is superior playmaking...but Marc also was never even close to Pau in that regard and got a lot better and learned a lot being in the NBA and the more he scored and got doubled the easier it got to pass. But Zizic's post moves+touch are a dead ringer for young MG, IMO. Zizic also isnt the same shooter but it took Gasol years to develop that.


Not sure he has the same defensive instincts. Hard to judge until he truly gets his body to the place Marc got it once he was in the league for a few years. So that's a little less clear.

Now, it's very rate for guys to reach their 100% ceiling. Most guys are lucky to reach 50% of it. So I'm not saying he will be Marc Gasol or even a poor mans Marc Gasol.... But I really wouldn't be shocked if he was a 18-10-4-2 guy on 60/80/35 (FG,FT, 3PT). I also wouldn't be shocked if he tops out as an average defensive, 12-10 guy with high efficiency and never develops range or passing. But that's still a very useful player in the NBA today! Especially at 23rd in the draft.

The only thing that would shock me is him not becoming a productive NBA player in some fashion barring major injury.
 
If he turns into Marc Gasol and the Cavs gets a player with the Nets pick, that would go down as one of the great steal trades this decade for a skimpy lil PG like Kyrie. We are a looooooooonnnnnnnnnnggggggggg way from that, but it is fun to think about.
 
I think posters have every right to be excited about a rookie who shows flashes of potential every now and then. Even those with the most pessimistic outlook on a 21 year old's career have to admit how much he's developed in this season alone after his stint in the G-League, never mind the improvements he can make over the summer on not only his game but on his body.

During this month he's putting up 7.9 pppg, 3.9 rpg, 1.0 bpg in 13.3 mpg on 81.3 FG%. We can argue the validity of per 36 stats but those are the raw numbers.

In the games where he's seen 15 minutes or more:

@Det: 16 minutes --> 6 points (3/3) 6 rebounds, 1 block, 2 assists
@LAL: 20 minutes --> 15 points (7/9) 7 rebounds, 2 blocks
@PHX: 15 minutes--> 11 points (5/5) 4 rebounds, 1 block, 1 assist
@CHI: 20 minutes --> 14 points (7/9) 6 rebounds, 1 block

Does this mean that if the Cavs have a top 3 pick, Zizic's continued development changes our need for a big? Probably not but Koby must have seen something other than a salary matching throw in and based on his quantifiable production this month, Koby certainly has something to work with in building a team for the future.
 
His ceiling is basically being Marc Gasol offensiely IMO. That's a perfect world, best case, everything goes right and he gets every break and has an elite work ethic and meets the right developmental people at the right time and plays in the right situation. He has a LOT of Gasol in his game especially if you compare them year by year (when Gasol was 20,21,etc). Maybe the one thing Gasol has is superior playmaking...but Marc also was never even close to Pau in that regard and got a lot better and learned a lot being in the NBA and the more he scored and got doubled the easier it got to pass. But Zizic's post moves+touch are a dead ringer for young MG, IMO. Zizic also isnt the same shooter but it took Gasol years to develop that.


Not sure he has the same defensive instincts. Hard to judge until he truly gets his body to the place Marc got it once he was in the league for a few years. So that's a little less clear.

Now, it's very rate for guys to reach their 100% ceiling. Most guys are lucky to reach 50% of it. So I'm not saying he will be Marc Gasol or even a poor mans Marc Gasol.... But I really wouldn't be shocked if he was a 18-10-4-2 guy on 60/80/35 (FG,FT, 3PT). I also wouldn't be shocked if he tops out as an average defensive, 12-10 guy with high efficiency and never develops range or passing. But that's still a very useful player in the NBA today! Especially at 23rd in the draft.

The only thing that would shock me is him not becoming a productive NBA player in some fashion barring major injury.

Gasol was just so skilled on defense in terms of Insticts, quick hands and anticipation... he was also more coordinated.

If Zizic could be a great rim protector I would be happy. I'm still mildly optimistic about his ability to defend on the perimeter with enough reps and practice. We will see, but he lacks coordination and fluidity on that end.

He is very long though and is a good post defender. The way he blocked Felecia's shot last night without even jumping is pretty rare to see.
 

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