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LeBron James

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Not having an experienced GM really did hurt us. The other thing that really hurt us was the half in/half out approach the trades took. We wasted a season of LeBron's prime on purpose. As soon as we found out IT was worse off than originally thought the trade should have been off the table. Tell Kyrie to shut up, and we will trade him when we can find a good deal. He was under contract he can deal with it.

My bet is Boston comes back, and offers us Tatum, and the BKN pick. At least Brown, and the BKN pick... Imagine this same exact team without JR starting smh.


No they wouldn’t...

Boston was obsessed with brown and Tatum. They weren’t going to do those guys plus the nets pick.

It just wasn’t happening.
 
No they wouldn’t...

Boston was obsessed with brown and Tatum. They weren’t going to do those guys plus the nets pick.

It just wasn’t happening.
Then they aren't getting a top three point guard for scraps. If IT was healthy then it woild have been a decent trade, but he was not, and we knew it, and we still did the trade. Should have passed.
 
I think not trading away Wade and we're probably tied 2-2 right now.

Just...no.

I appreciate a lot of what he did here and he might get us game 1, but he ended up being nearly as much of a locker room problem as IT and couldn't stay in shape.

His postseason accomplishment this year was leading one win against a Sixers team that showed the next round that they weren''t ready for the big time just yet.
 
Just...no.

I appreciate a lot of what he did here and he might get us game 1, but he ended up being nearly as much of a locker room problem as IT and couldn't stay in shape.

His postseason accomplishment this year was leading one win against a Sixers team that showed the next round that they weren''t ready for the big time just yet.
I think you're underestimating LeBron/Wade in the playoffs.

LeBron sort of highlighted that in his presser about High BBIQ being needed.

With Wade we're not relying on both Hill and JR at the end of game 1. With Wade we would have had another trust worthy ball handler to keep LeBron fresh to finish game 3.

Its the regular season...there will always be issues with LeBron led teams. However, by the time of the playoffs? Wade/LeBron figure that shit.

If anything we would at least been fresher for the finals. We would have beat Indiana in 5 and the Celtics in 6.
 
Not having an experienced GM really did hurt us. The other thing that really hurt us was the half in/half out approach the trades took. We wasted a season of LeBron's prime on purpose. As soon as we found out IT was worse off than originally thought the trade should have been off the table. Tell Kyrie to shut up, and we will trade him when we can find a good deal. He was under contract he can deal with it.

My bet is Boston comes back, and offers us Tatum, and the BKN pick. At least Brown, and the BKN pick... Imagine this same exact team without JR starting smh.
I really think we got the most for Kyrie we could...no team was gutting their roster for him...the best option outside of Boston was keeping him....
 
I really think we got the most for Kyrie we could...no team was gutting their roster for him...the best option outside of Boston was keeping him....
I disagree. Kyrie was signed for 2 seasons, and I'd say we got less than Indy got for PG13. We got an injured on the wrong side of 30 PG, no good prospects to speak of, and the 8th pick in the draft. A deadline deal would have been better. Waiting a week couldn't have hurt. Kyrie was one of the most valuable players in the league, and we squandered it.
 
I disagree. Kyrie was signed for 2 seasons, and I'd say we got less than Indy got for PG13. We got an injured on the wrong side of 30 PG, no good prospects to speak of, and the 8th pick in the draft. A deadline deal would have been better. Waiting a week couldn't have hurt. Kyrie was one of the most valuable players in the league, and we squandered it.
I'm just saying no teams seemed to be anteing up anything really good....and at the time the PG13 trade to OKC looked like Indy got crap back...in hindsight it was a great trade for Indy...I agree the best thing to was to keep him...nobody is arguing the trade was a good one just that there was nothing better...
 
I still remember all the negative rep I received at the trade deadline.

It was ridiculous.

We traded Dwyane Wade for a 2nd rd pick!!!!!! Lolol.

And then we traded that 2nd pick to help acquire a PG who sucks and makes $20M next year lolol.

Awesome!!!!!!
 
I still remember all the negative rep I received at the trade deadline.

It was ridiculous.

We traded Dwyane Wade for a 2nd rd pick!!!!!! Lolol.

And then we traded that 2nd pick to help acquire a PG who sucks and makes $20M next year lolol.

Awesome!!!!!!
You were receiving wide adulation compared to the vitriolic hail storm that showered upon me when I excoriated JR's contract. Yep, great call on that one boys (and girls)!
 
I'm just saying no teams seemed to be anteing up anything really good....and at the time the PG13 trade to OKC looked like Indy got crap back...in hindsight it was a great trade for Indy...I agree the best thing to was to keep him...nobody is arguing the trade was a good one just that there was nothing better...
We never played hard ball with one of the three or four most valuable players in the league (old max, 2 years, 25 years old). We don't know what Boston would have offered if we just hung up on them.
 
2018 was the most miraculous carry job in NBA history. LeBron accumulated 100% of the team’s playoffS’ Value Over Replacement Player (VORP). A replacement player is equivalent to a 12th man scrub or someone straight from the G-League. This means what LeBron did in these playoffs is lead a team that played like a G-League team to the Finals. He also had the most single season playoff VORP in playoff history this year.

You only see this type of number when a great player plays a single series in the playoffs and loses (see below). No player who has been to the Finals has ever come close to this number.

Conclusion: Jordan has gotten much more help than LeBron and that’s true if you look at LeBron’s first stint in Cleveland, stint in Miami sans 2011 when Wade was still in his prime, and his second stint here. In fact, Pippen had a higher playoff VORP than Jordan in two different playoffs. LeBron has been the clear-cut best player on his team in the playoffs every year sans 2011 and even then he was better overall in the playoffs.

% of a team’s playoffs VORP through the NBA Finals

1. LeBron, 2018, 100%

2. Kareem, 1974, 62.5%
3. LeBron, 2007, 60%
4. LeBron, 2014, 55.8%

5. Bird, 1984, 50.9%
6. Duncan, 2003, 49.3%
7. Drexler, 1990, 48.6%
8. Barkley, 1993, 46.8%
9. Kidd, 2002, 46.2%
10.LeBron, 2015, 45.8%
11. LeBron, 2012, 44.4%

12. Shaq, 2003, 44.4%
13. Hakeem, 1994, 44.4%
14. Magic, 1980, 43.9%
15. Jordan, 1991, 43.8%
16. Bird, 1987, 43.5%
17. Wade, 2006, 43.3%
18. LeBron, 2017, 43.1%
19. Magic, 1991, 42.9%
20. LeBron, 2016, 42.6%

Other famous “Carry” performances:

Iverson, 2001: 39.5%
Walton, 1977: 35.6%
Dirk, 2011: 17.4%

% of team playoffs VORP (played at least two series)

Jordan:

1985: 66.7% (played only one series, lost 3-1 in first round)
1986: 100% (played only one series, lost 3-0 in first round)
1987: 133% (played only one series, lost 3-0 in first round)
1988: 93.3% (lost in 5 in the ECSF)
1989: 71.1% (lost in 6 in ECF)
1990: 70% (lost in 7 in ECF)
1991: 43.8% (Pippen, 26.6%, Grant, 17.2%)
1992: 37% (Pippen, 30.1%; Grant, 26%—a highly underrated player)
1993: 40.3% (Grant, 19.4%; Pippen, 16.1%)
1995: 39.1% (Pippen, 34.8%; Kukoc, 26.1%)
1996: 25.7% (Pippen, 28.4%; Rodman, 12.2%; Harper, 12.2%)
1997: 32.8% (Pippen, 20.9%; Harper, 14.9%)
1998: 25.7% (Pippen, 27.1%, Kukoc, 15.7%)

LeBron:

2006: 63.6% (Donyell, 13.6%) (lost in 7 in ECSF)

2007: 60% (Boobie, 12.5%) People talk about this carry job, but players contributed more here than this year. But Boobie as your second biggest VORP player? JFC.

2008: 53.3% (lost in 7 in ECSF)
2009: 64.4% (Delonte, 11.1%) (lost in 6 in ECF)
2010: 75% (Jamario Moon, 10%) (lost in 6 in ECSF)
2011: 42.6% (Wade, 37%; Bosh, 5.6%—not third but wanted to post that)
2012: 44.4% (Wade, 19.4%)
2013: 42.1% (Wade, 14.3%; Bosh, 12.9%)
2014: 55.8% (Bosh, 16.3%; Wade, 9.3%)
2015: 45.8% (Shump, 13.6%; Kyrie, 13.6%)
2016: 42.6% (Kyrie, 17.8%; J.R., 16.4%)
2017: 43.1% (Love, 13.8%; Kyrie, 8.6% due to shit defense and crappy offense against Indy and sub 50% TS shooting against Toronto.

2018: 100% (Nance, 13.5%, Love, NEGATIVE 2.7%, Hood, NEGATIVE 5.4%Clarkson, NEGATIVE 13.5%

Kobe:

1999: 25% (Shaq, 37.5%)
2000: 20.7% (Shaq, 39.7%)

2001: 24.2% (Shaq, 24.2%)
2002: 19.6% (Shaq 28.6%)
2003: 22.2% (Shaq, 44.4%)
2004: 28.6% (Shaq, 33.9%)
2006: (played only one series but 7 games):33.3% (Odom, 44.4%)

2007: played only one series but 60%
2008: 30.6% (Gasol, 24.2%; Odom, 16.1%)
2009: 30.1% (Gasol, 27.4%; Ariza, 17.8%; Odom, 16.4%)
2010: 32.2% (Gasol, 32.2%)
2011: 18.8% (Gasol, 25%; Metta World Peace, 25%)
2012: 42.8% (Gasol, 31.3%; 31.3%, then a few negative players)

Shaq:

1995: 31.9% (Penny, 25.5%)
1996: 30.3% (Penny, 30.3%)
1997: 37.5% (Horry, 20.8%)
1998: 36.4% (Eddie Jones, 27.3%, Horry, 24.2%)
1999: 37.5% (Kobe, 25%)
2000: 39.7% (Kobe, 20.7%)
2001: 24.2% (Kobe, 24.2%)
2002: 28.6% (Horry, 26.8%, Kobe, 19.6%)
2003: 44.4% (Kobe, 22.2%)
2004: 33.9% (Kobe, 28.6%)
2005: 4.9% (Wade, 29.3%)
2006: 11.7% (Wade, 43.3%)


Magic:

1980: 43.9% (Kareem, 36.6%)
1982: 40% (Kareem, 17.5%)
1983: 39.4% (Kareem, 30.3%)
1984: 34.6% (Kareem, 30.2%, Worthy, 18.9%)
1985: 24.1% (Kareem, 22.4%, Worthy, 17.2%)
1986: 40.5% (Kareem, 18.9%, Cooper, 13.5%)
1987: 35.7% (Worthy, 22.8%, Cooper, 15.8%, Kareem, 10.5%)
1988: 34.6% (Worthy, 28.8%, Scott, 17.3%)
1989: 29.3% (Worthy, 26.8%)
1990: 36% (Divac, 20.8%, Scott, 16.7%)
1991: 42.9% (Divac, 22.4%, Perkins, 22.4%)

Bird:

1980: 30.4% (Maxwell, 30.4%, Cowens, 17.4%)
1981: 40.8% (Maxwell, 26.5%, Parish, 12.2%)
1982: 32.3% (Maxwell, 25.8%, McHale, 22.6%)
1983: 54.5% (Maxwell, 36.4%)
1984: 50.9% (Maxwell, 15.8%, McHale, 10.5%)
1985: 32.7% (Mchale, 22.4%, Parish, 12.2%)
1986: 38.7% (Ainge, 22.6%, McHale, 21%)
1987: 43.5% (McHale, 18.2%, Parish, 18.2%)
1988: 47.1% (McHale, 41.2%)
1990: 25% (Parish, 37.5%, McHale, 25%), one series
1991: 18.2% (McHale, 22.7%, Lewis, 18.2%)


Kareem:

1970-1973: No VORP #s available
1974: 62.5% (Dandridge, 17.5%, Oscar, 12.5%)
1975: Missed playoffs
1976: Missed Playoffs
1977: 90.9% (Tatum, 9.1%) Lost in WCF
1978: 66.7% (Only one series and 3 games played)
1979: 81.8% (Wilkes, 18.2%)
1980: 36.6% (Magic, 43.9%)
1982: 17.5% (Magic, 40%)
1983: 30.3% (Magic, 39.4%)
1984: 30.2% (Magic, 34.6%, Worthy, 18.9%)
1985: 22.4% (Magic, 24.1%, Worthy, 17.2%)


Duncan:

1998: 25% (DRob, 29.2%)
1999: 34.6% (DRob, 28.8%, Elliot, 15.4%)
2001: 46.4% (DRob, 28.6%)
2002: 44.4% (Bowen, 14.8%, Rose, 14.8%)
2003: 49.3% (Manu, 15.5%, Bowen, 11.2%, DRob, 11.2%)
2004: 29.6% (Manu, 25.9%, Horry, 14.8%)
2005: 21% (Manu, 33.9%, Horry, 22.6%)
2006: 38.7% (Manu, 19.4%, Bowen, 16.1%)
2007: 30.4% (Manu, 19.4%, Bowen, 16.1%)
2008: 26.3% (Manu, 21.1%, Parker, 18.4%)
2010: 25% (Manu, 43.8%)
2011: 12.5% (only played one series)
2012: 19.5% (Diaw, 17.1%, Kawhi, 14.6%)
2013: 11.3% (Kawhi, 24.2%, Green, 21%, Parker, 14.5%)
2014: 14.5% (Kawhi, 19.3%, Manu, 15.7%, Green, 14.5%, Splitter, 14.5%)


Hakeem:

1986: 36% (Sampson, 26%, McCray, 18%)
1987: 73.3% (McCray, 40%, three with negative VORPs)
1988: 85.7% (only played one series)
1989: 50%, only played one series
1990: 42.9%, only played one series
1991: 60%, only played one series
1992: Missed Playoffs
1993: 59.3% (Thorpe, 24.1%)
1994: 44.4% (Horry, 23.8%)
1995: 27.4% (Drexler, 27.4%, Horry, 25.8%)
1996: 35.7% (Horry, 42.9%, Drexler, 35.7%)

1997: 41.9% (Drexler, 25.6%, Barkley, 23.3%)

Barkley:

1985: 32.5% (Cheeks, 32.5%)
1986: 50% (Cheeks, 20%)
1987: 40%, played only one series
1988: Missed Playoffs
1989: 80%, played only one series
1990: 111% (Hawkins, 44.4%, multiple negatives)
1991: 57.9% (Hawkins, 42.1%)
1992: Missed Playoffs
1993: 46.8% (Majerle, 29.8%)
1994: 64.7% (KJ and A.C. Green, 17.6%)
1995: 29% (KJ, 29%)

K. Malone

1988: 4.2% (Stockton, 41.7%)
1989: Team has 0 VORP due to negatives, Malone with .1 and Stockton with .3; played only one series
1990: 25%, played only one series
1991: 24% (Stockton, 37.5%)
1992: 42.9% (Stockton, 22.9%)
1993: 22.2% played only one series
1994: 42.4% (Stockton, 24.2%)
1995: 20% played only one series
1996: 24.6% (Hornacek, 24.6%, Russell, 18.1%)
1997: 14.5% (Stockton, 25.8%, Russell and Hornacek, 19.4%)

1998: 34.6% (Russell, 21.2%, Stockton, 19.4%)
1999: 36.4% (Russell, 22.7%, Hornacek, 20.8%)
2000: 63.6% (Russell, 36.4%, Stockton, 18.2%)
2001: 12.5% (Stockton, 50%, Russell, 37.5%)

Dirk:

2006: 35.3%
2011: 17.4% (Kidd, 21.7%, Terry, 17.4%, Chandler, 15.9%)

Wade:

2006: 43.3% (Posey, 13.3%, Shaq, 11.7%, Walker, 11.7%)

Walton:

1977: 35.4% (Gross, 29.2%)

Iverson:

2001: 39.1% (Mutombo, 28.2%)

Ewing

1994: 30.9% (Oakley, 27.3%)

Isiah Thomas

1988: 34.3%
1990: 33.3%

Drexler

1990: 48.6%
1992: 36.5%

Robert Reid

1981: 43.2%

Unseld and Dandridge

1979: 40.6%

Dave Cowens

1976: 43.2%
 
I still remember all the negative rep I received at the trade deadline.

It was ridiculous.

We traded Dwyane Wade for a 2nd rd pick!!!!!! Lolol.

And then we traded that 2nd pick to help acquire a PG who sucks and makes $20M next year lolol.

Awesome!!!!!!
It happens lol. People shat on me for saying the Nets pick wouldn't amount to shit and we should've taken the Middleton/Brogdon deal. With that trade we probably win Game 1 and the series if JR gets injured
 

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