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2017-18 Cleveland Indians Offseason

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Yes, we lost some talent, but to say we'll absolutely be worse than last year is discrediting a lot of players on the team.

-While they both had great years, at 24 and 25 you should expect Lindor and Ramirez to continue to get better

-Roberto Perez quietly put up a phenomenal second half (.808 OPS) and was one of few players to produce in the ALDS

-Michael Brantley was an All Star last year. But this forum loves to say it's a foregone conclusion he won't contribute next year

-Bradley Zimmer had his ups and downs but his future certainly looks promising.

-Kipnis has been a phenomenal bat when healthy

-Yes, we lost Santana which sucks but we replaced him with a guy who was an AL All Star last year. He should make up for a solid percentage of Santana's production

-Chisenhall was having the best season of his career until derailed with injuries. Guyer should rebound if healthy


I just don't get the doom and gloom for the Cleveland franchise that probably has the best chance to win it all this year, barring an injury to an integral piece to the Golden State Warriors. It's January 11 and this forum has decided the 2018 Indians are already dead.
 
With the Yankees, Astros and Dodgers looking practically unbeatable, maybe the Indians should look to move Frankie and Kluber. Imagine the prospects the Indians can get.

Why in the world would we move Frankie for prospects?? No team has what it would take to get him.
 
What a bunch of shit takes in here. Season hasn't even started yet and you guys are already writing off the Tribe. Unbelievable. At least wait until they get off to a colder start like you usually do
 
If you're trying to think transitively to what this team is like a calendar year later, you're going to end up way off the beaten path.

That's simply not how it works in baseball.


I'm certain they're not done adding another piece, but the belief that it has to be some sort of major addition to make up for Brantley and Chisenhall's inconsistencies is likely not true.

Bradley Zimmer could make up that difference by himself if healthy, Greg Allen, Yandy Diaz, Tyler Naquin and others all could take their game up a level.

Where they were at the point of acquiring Bruce last year isn't relevant.


So you're telling me we're better than we were last year without Bruce, Santana, and Shaw? They were mediocre without Bruce last year, that is a fact. It's wishful thinking to count on unproven guys to get the job done. Allen, Diaz, and Naquin? Lol, ok anyone with common sense would say they would rather have Santana or Bruce.

You look at Houston last year, they made a ton of offseason moves to get better. This isn't 2016, when we got a lucky draw getting Toronto and Boston. The Astros, Yankees, and even Dodgers are considerably better than those teams;the numbers say so.

This isn't being doom or gloom, just the reality of the stacked teams in baseball at the moment. Sure we could win the whole thing, but the odds aren't in our favor right now unless some moves are made. We need to improve, just like Houston did a year ago.
 
So you're telling me we're better than we were last year without Bruce, Santana, and Shaw? They were mediocre without Bruce last year, that is a fact. It's wishful thinking to count on unproven guys to get the job done. Allen, Diaz, and Naquin? Lol, ok anyone with common sense would say they would rather have Santana or Bruce.

Why were the Indians "worse" the year after adding Encarnacion and Bruce?

They went from a World Series team to a first round exit.

If we're going to use this heinous logic, I just want it applied consistently.


You look at Houston last year, they made a ton of offseason moves to get better. This isn't 2016, when we got a lucky draw getting Toronto and Boston. The Astros, Yankees, and even Dodgers are considerably better than those teams;the numbers say so.

This isn't being doom or gloom, just the reality of the stacked teams in baseball at the moment. Sure we could win the whole thing, but the odds aren't in our favor right now unless some moves are made. We need to improve, just like Houston did a year ago.

You're right, this is not 2016 or 2017. That's sort of my point.

The goal of every team is to improve, but Houston improved not solely because of the 1-2 guys they added.

Teams win collectively, and usually not in the off-season.


As has been explained, Alonso probably comes in a bit less than Santana's production (not much). A full season of Zimmer and Chisenhall and/or whomever they're likely to add before Spring Training could outweigh the fraction of games they had Jay Bruce.

Young players continue to improve, young staff continues to improve.


Tit for tat in free agency isn't the answer to your prayers.
 
Good small/mid market franchises have and will always win with continuous player development within their own system.

Let's not act like the Indians aren't rolling out a young core that is still improving, while also graduating players out of a top 10 farm system in all of baseball.

Free agency and trade isn't the only way to improve a team, but some seem to believe that it is.

Everyone is 3 months early on the doom and gloom start this go round.
 
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Morton was great for Houston in the World Series

Their other additions were:
McCann- 3 yrs $49m, acquired in trade
Reddick- 4 yrs $52m
Beltran- 1 yr $16m
Aoki- Waiver claim, later traded

McCann, Reddick and Beltran combined in the playoffs:
.169 AVG
.242 OBP
.225 SLG

Those 3 made $47m last year.
 
Morton was great for Houston in the World Series

Their other additions were:
McCann- 3 yrs $49m, acquired in trade
Reddick- 4 yrs $52m
Beltran- 1 yr $16m
Aoki- Waiver claim, later traded

McCann, Reddick and Beltran combined in the playoffs:
.169 AVG
.242 OBP
.225 SLG

Those 3 made $47m last year.
yeah but they went for it
 
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Hard to blame the Dolans for not shelling out more money on a bunch of chokers.
 
From Zach Meisel's article from The Athletic back in late December:

"So, when you consider the landscape of the Central, why should the Indians pay full price for any short-term trade commodity? Why pay extra for April, May and June production? Prospective free agents such as Josh Donaldson and Andrew McCutchen should cost less in July than they do now, especially if the Blue Jays and Pirates fall from contention. Not to mention, the player’s salary will be sliced in half.

“Most trades are not about a mismatch in evaluation,” Chernoff said last week at the winter meetings. “They’re about positional need or a mismatch in timing. Even if you value players the same way as another team, you can still line up on a trade if they’re in rebuild mode and you’re in go for it mode. Or, if you have a positional need and they have a different positional need.

“You’re not looking to fleece people with trades. You’re looking to align interests and see if you match up.”

The Indians will also have more information at their disposal six months from now. They’ll have a better handle on the recovery processes for Michael Brantley and Brandon Guyer. They’ll know whether Francisco Mejia and Greg Allen are ready to supply everyday contributions to the big-league lineup. They’ll be able to identify which teams are selling and are desperate to move talented veteran players."
 
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