2017 Free Agent Thread

[natedagg]

I am operating with the belief that Kessler can be a nice career backup. Not an indictment on him, I just don't think he'll advance enough physically to be much more.

Kessler is not the long term starter on a playoff or championship caliber team. I think long term backup is best case for Kessler.

I am just curious as to your positions on Goff, who with the same amount of passes, is having a worse year than Kessler. If you've "seen enough" to write off Kessler as a career backup, I suppose that you've seen enough of Goff too?

Or does Goff's stronger arm give him more potential?
Does Kessler has better weapons? A better O-line?
Maybe, since you've watched more of Kessler, you can tell he sucks, but you don't want to grade Goff because you haven't seen all of his tape.

OR, maybe it's time to concede that the book isn't closed on either of them, and that because of this, we should play Kessler next year to figure it out.

My lean on Kessler is that he likely isn't the answer. But the stats don't suck, his work ethic doesn't suck, and I think it's worth giving him an off-season to hopefully strengthen his arm and have Hue give him a program that helps slow the game down.

 

[AZ_]

The Browns should target younger players only, not established veterans looking for a payday.

They're not going to be in the market for them, but have open starting positions available elsewhere and the cap space to make respectable bids for underrated stars.

Here are some lesser tier targets who would be excellent additions:

JC Tretter - C - Green Bay

He's 25, plays a premium offensive line position at a high level and does not appear to have a home with Corey Linsley being under team control at C for the Packers. Would have a VERY high priority on talking to him this off-season. Would fit in perfectly.


Lawrence Guy - DL - Baltimore

Could step into the role currently occupied by Stephen Paea. Heading into his age 27 season, could provide a more stout option against the run than the current crew, including the Pierogi Prince of Parma, Jaime Meder.


Jonathan Hankins - DT - New York Giants

More likely a fantasy option. He's still just 24, and has freakish athleticism for his size and is learning to use leverage in the run game. Having Hank and Shelton could eat up blockers and pose a huge problem on early downs, allowing Nassib, Garrett (plz), Ogbah and others to fly off edges and make plays.


Abry Jones - DL - Jacksonville

Similar to Guy, he'd present a viable alternative as a second run-stuffing option similar to Paea. Young guy that needs a chance to get more snaps.

 

[CBBI]

Disagree. The worst thing they can do is not use the cap space or use the cap space on average players past their prime. The Browns need to upgrade at every position. If they can get a stud, they absolutely should. Signing Pryor, Collins, and hoping to draft 3-4 contributors is a good foundation, but you can turn things around quickly in the NFL. I want proven players who know how to win and am okay with overpaying. By not signing free agents, they are just going to be creating more holes to be filled in the draft, and it will be a never-ending cycle.

Prepare to be disappointed would be my advice.

Unless Jimbo has mandated that the plan must change, this team isn't going to be a major player in free agency, probably ever as long as Sashi and Paul are in charge. It doesn't fit the long-term vision.

Think Packers, not Redskins.

 

[AZ_]

Prepare to be disappointed would be my advice.

Unless Jimbo has mandated that the plan must change, this team isn't going to be a major player in free agency, probably ever as long as Sashi and Paul are in charge. It doesn't fit the long-term vision.

Think Packers, not Redskins.

People don't understand that Browns don't get to have "studs" in free agency.

They don't exist to the elite players, short of special circumstances with a former coach or something to that effect.

Free agency is always just a bag of players they can pick and choose who they want. It doesn't exist like that.

 

[ajz20]

I am just curious as to your positions on Goff, who with the same amount of passes, is having a worse year than Kessler. If you've "seen enough" to write off Kessler as a career backup, I suppose that you've seen enough of Goff too?

Or does Goff's stronger arm give him more potential?
Does Kessler has better weapons? A better O-line?
Maybe, since you've watched more of Kessler, you can tell he sucks, but you don't want to grade Goff because you haven't seen all of his tape.

OR, maybe it's time to concede that the book isn't closed on either of them, and that because of this, we should play Kessler next year to figure it out.

My lean on Kessler is that he likely isn't the answer. But the stats don't suck, his work ethic doesn't suck, and I think it's worth giving him an off-season to hopefully strengthen his arm and have Hue give him a program that helps slow the game down.

I have been disappointed with Goff overall, but he has not been given a great supporting cast with the crappy o line, poor offensive coordinating and below average wrs. However, he has def had a poor rookie year. His accuracy has been very poor. Not writing him off, but Goff has a ton of work to do in many different areas. He is much more raw then anyone anticipated. Yes Goff has more arm talent than Kessler and has a better chance to become a full time tarting NFL qb. Most scouts gave Kessler a 6th to 7th round grade. He lacks the arm talent to push the ball downfield on a consistent basis. He can be a spot starter and I would not be that upset if he was starter for another year until they can draft a future franchise qb. No shame in being a backup qb/bridge qb. I would rather him by far than RG3 or a washed up MCcown.

 

[ajz20]

People don't understand that Browns don't get to have "studs" in free agency.

They don't exist to the elite players, short of special circumstances with a former coach or something to that effect.

Free agency is always just a bag of players they can pick and choose who they want. It doesn't exist like that.

I agree , I would love to see at least two starters added in free agency. I am not expecting pro bowlers by any means but just upgrades from a very poor roster that lacks talent. I think people need to remember this roster is years not one offseason from putting a team on the field that can go 8-8. If they can go 8-8 by 2018, then that means they had two great drafts in a row. I would hope by 2019 they are good enough to win 9 or more games. But it might take as long a 2020. Just a ton of holes to fill over the next 2-3 drafts and free agency period. This team is not going from last to first next year.

 

[SixPACK]

"In case any interested teams were wondering what the price tag for New England Patriots quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo would be, now we have an idea.

On “Kirk and Callahan” on WEEI in Boston, ESPN’s Adam Schefter said the starting point in negotiations would be a first- and fourth-round pick. That’s what the Minnesota Vikings gave up for Sam Bradford a few months ago."

 

[Los216]

"In case any interested teams were wondering what the price tag for New England Patriots quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo would be, now we have an idea.

On “Kirk and Callahan” on WEEI in Boston, ESPN’s Adam Schefter said the starting point in negotiations would be a first- and fourth-round pick. That’s what the Minnesota Vikings gave up for Sam Bradford a few months ago."

Who has more career snaps, Kessler of Jimmy?

 

[Soda]

Who has more career snaps, Kessler of Jimmy?

Kessler: 128/195 (65.6%) for 1,380 yards. 6 TDs, 2 INTs, 4 fumbles.

Garoppolo: 63/93 (67.7%) for 690 yards. 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 2 fumbles.

I'm not trying to compare the two. Just answering your question & providing some context.

 

[I'mWithDan]

"In case any interested teams were wondering what the price tag for New England Patriots quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo would be, now we have an idea.

On “Kirk and Callahan” on WEEI in Boston, ESPN’s Adam Schefter said the starting point in negotiations would be a first- and fourth-round pick. That’s what the Minnesota Vikings gave up for Sam Bradford a few months ago."

I wonder what kind of 1st it needs to be.....

Hypothetically speaking.......who would trade back from #9, collect a few additional assets and then trade the pick wherever it settles (for arguments sake, lets sake #18)? Anyone? That would be something like a pick in the #17-20 range, a middle second and a 4th.

I don't think there's any way I would trade #9 for him but in a scenario where the Browns could drop back to lets says #18-20, pick up an additional #2 and #4, that seems plausible. You would turn #9 in to JG and then whoever you pick in the second round.

I just don't know if NE would balk at that. I suppose it depends on how much they truly value him. The Minnesota pick is going to be in the middle of the round (it is currently #14), so maybe it is possible to trade back, if they are looking for a comparable package.

It's certainly a roll of the dice though. I wish he had more experience but at the same time, if he did, he may not even be on the block or if he still were, it would cost an even higher price.

I'd stand pat if NE wanted #9 but if the Browns could trade back from that spot, get the 4th that would go out as the second piece (while picking up a second), I would probably gamble on him. After watching this college season play out, I like him better than all of the QB's in this draft (maybe you can talk me in to Trubisky).

 

[el_capitan]

Kessler: 128/195 (65.6%) for 1,380 yards. 6 TDs, 2 INTs, 4 fumbles.

Garoppolo: 63/93 (67.7%) for 690 yards. 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 2 fumbles.

I'm not trying to compare the two. Just answering your question & providing some context.

So outside of the TD's and INT's, if you double Garoppolo's stats they are almost identical to Kesslers. What makes him worth a 1st and 4th over what we have in Kessler? Better arm? Bigger build?

 

[Soda]

So outside of the TD's and INT's, if you double Garoppolo's stats they are almost identical to Kesslers. What makes him worth a 1st and 4th over what we have in Kessler? Better arm? Bigger build?

I'll just give my opinion that J.G. is not worth a top-10 1st, let alone a 1st and a 4th.

J.G. as a prospect has more upside than Kessler, no question. That said, he has 93 pass attempts in his career and is being traded from a team that makes a habit of hocking their drafted QBs for more than they're worth.. If the Browns were to go this route, I sincerely hope they don't go higher than a 2nd round pick.

 

[CBBI]

So outside of the TD's and INT's, if you double Garoppolo's stats they are almost identical to Kesslers. What makes him worth a 1st and 4th over what we have in Kessler? Better arm? Bigger build?

No offense, but saying "outside of TDs and INTs" when talking about quarterback stats is pretty hilarious. Kessler has 6 TDs in eight career starts, Garoppolo has 5 TDs in two, that alone is a major difference.

I'm not necessarily a big Garoppolo fan, but you can't just go off stats to tell the story anyway. Jimmy has a much bigger arm and a quicker release than Kessler which opens up more possibilities within a given playbook. There are a lot of routes and concepts that are basically pointless to run right now with Kessler because he either physically can't make the throws consistently or he lacks the confidence in his arm to even *attempt* certain throws.

The other thing is awareness. I keep harping on it with Kessler, but I was really disappointed in the amount of seemingly avoidable sacks he took this year. I don't think he's a stupid player, I just don't think he recognizes what's happening around him in terms of pass rush or coverage quick enough. Some of it is simply inexperience, but again, this was a problem for him in college as well so I'm not totally sure how much better it's really going to get.

Garoppolo hasn't played that much, but I went back on NFL Game Pass and watched every throw he made this year. The one thing that jumps out to me is his decisiveness. The ball comes out really quick. If the first read is there, he hits it. If it's not, he's very aware of where is second/third/check down is on a given play and goes to it quickly. The upside to that is that Jimmy's very unlikely to eat a drive killing sack like the current Browns QBs are so good at doing. The downside is that chunk plays can be left on the field if the QB thinks the ball has to come out in under 2.5 seconds, regardless of how good his pocket is.

 

[el_capitan]

No offense, but saying "outside of TDs and INTs" when talking about quarterback stats is pretty hilarious. Kessler has 6 TDs in eight career starts, Garoppolo has 5 TDs in two, that alone is a major difference.

I'm not necessarily a big Garoppolo fan, but you can't just go off stats to tell the story anyway. Jimmy has a much bigger arm and a quicker release than Kessler which opens up more possibilities within a given playbook. There are a lot of routes and concepts that are basically pointless to run right now with Kessler because he either physically can't make the throws consistently or he lacks the confidence in his arm to even *attempt* certain throws.

The other thing is awareness. I keep harping on it with Kessler, but I was really disappointed in the amount of seemingly avoidable sacks he took this year. I don't think he's a stupid player, I just don't think he recognizes what's happening around him in terms of pass rush or coverage quick enough. Some of it is simply inexperience, but again, this was a problem for him in college as well so I'm not totally sure how much better it's really going to get.

Garoppolo hasn't played that much, but I went back on NFL Game Pass and watched every throw he made this year. The one thing that jumps out to me is his decisiveness. The ball comes out really quick. If the first read is there, he hits it. If it's not, he's very aware of where is second/third/check down is on a given play and goes to it quickly. The upside to that is that Jimmy's very unlikely to eat a drive killing sack like the current Browns QBs are so good at doing. The downside is that chunk plays can be left on the field if the QB thinks the ball has to come out in under 2.5 seconds, regardless of how good his pocket is.

I assumed someone would jump on that after I posted it. I didn't mean to completely dismiss it, I just don't think Garappolo is on pace for 10 TD's and no INT's if we doubled his stats. I'd put it more in line with maybe 8 TD's and 1 INT, which is still good.

5 TD's in 2 games is great, but again that's with the Patriot's offense and Belichick. They are known for inflating backup QB's value and having them flame out.

 

[CBBI]

I'll just give my opinion that J.G. is not worth a top-10 1st, let alone a 1st and a 4th.

J.G. as a prospect has more upside than Kessler, no question. That said, he has 93 pass attempts in his career and is being traded from a team that makes a habit of hocking their drafted QBs for more than they're worth.. If the Browns were to go this route, I sincerely hope they don't go higher than a 2nd round pick.

Of course he's not worth a 1st and a 4th in a vacuum. But it doesn't hurt the Patriots at all to ask for the moon. You never know who will get desperate.

I do think the difference between Garoppolo and Hoyer, Cassel, Mallett is that Garoppolo was legitimately a 2nd round talent in his draft class.

Hoyer was undrafted. Cassel was a 7th rounder. Mallett was a third rounder, but was overdrafted. He literally never played (4 career passes in NE) and was also god awful in the three preseasons he did get to play with the Patriots.

And if you think about it, the only guy they really hocked for more than he was worth was Cassel. The Pats got a 2nd rounder for him (that deal also included Vrabel who had 16.5 sacks the two previous years combined). Hoyer left in free agency and they eventually traded 3rd rounder Mallett for a 7th round pick.