2018-2019 Around The NBA thread

[Real Deal]

Harden...

Man...

Was never a fan of his style but I think he's probably the best scorer I've watched since Jordan. And I was a baby watching Jordan.

I'll still continue to hate on his FTs, his playoff choke jobs, his flopping, and so on.

All Harden has to do is win a championship.

 

[Real Deal]

No one wants to talk about how enjoyable Boston sucking and infighting is? Ky thought he could take a page from Brons book and be some kind of leader, not so much buddy. Hopefully they end up with a low seed and get their teeth kicked in by Milwaukee/Toronto.

Brooklyn was chanting 'Kyrie is leaving', Kyrie sat there lifeless.

 

[Cavatt]

No one wants to talk about how enjoyable Boston sucking and infighting is? Ky thought he could take a page from Brons book and be some kind of leader, not so much buddy. Hopefully they end up with a low seed and get their teeth kicked in by Milwaukee/Toronto.

I think it really shows how elusive the super team concept is. Just having Tatum take a slight step back, Brown not really getting much better, Hayward not being 100%, etc. Just a few things to throw it off, and not hitting expectations is poison. Same thing with the Wiz both now and in the old Arenas Jamison days. They thought they were a big 3 and when it didn't work right away, it slowly poisoned the team and those around them.

Lots of things can go wrong. People are talking a lot about being able to maximize guys who aren't that good vs being able to get the most out of stars. Right now Stevens looks like he may only be the first guy.

I just don't see how these guys can compete with a team like Milwaukee or Toronto. They got a false sense of who they are by beating Philly, who has their own issues in pretty much the same vein, and taking the Cavs to 7 which in retrospect was not much of an accomplishment as the Cavs were really pretty bad outside of Lebron, and it's basically proven that the 2018 Cavs were one of the worst finals teams ever.

How are they going to beat even Indiana in the playoffs?

 

[Derek]

Only by .01. In his 6 years in Houston it's lower, 57.0% to Bron's 57.9%. LeBrons would be much higher if it wasn't for his atrocious 48.7 TS% in 2015. Harden is at 41/32/88 in the playoffs while with Houston.

It's still higher, right? You don't get to discount or prop up certain seasons, it all happened. Regardless, 57% true shooting is really damn efficient for a high usage player. My point was never to actually compare him to LeBron, just to bust the myth that Harden disappears in the playoffs.

Yes, he's had his struggles, but he's also had his share of great moments, as has any high usage star in the playoffs.

He's 49% on 2's, 32% on 3's, and gets to the line a ton while making them at a great clip. He's still been a tremendous performer in the playoffs despite what many like to think.

 

[Cavatt]

It's still higher, right? You don't get to discount or prop up certain seasons, it all happened. Regardless, 57% true shooting is really damn efficient for a high usage player. My point was never to actually compare him to LeBron, just to bust the myth that Harden disappears in the playoffs.

Yes, he's had his struggles, but he's also had his share of great moments, as has any high usage star in the playoffs.

He's 49% on 2's, 32% on 3's, and gets to the line a ton while making them at a great clip. He's still been a tremendous performer in the playoffs despite what many like to think.

He has a habit of being hot and cold in the playoffs with some of the cold performances coming in must win games, so despite the numbers, he just isn't in Lebron's league of consistency. Really dumb plays on crucial possessions. I don't think him turning into a pumpkin in the playoffs is undeserved. The numbers just don't tell the whole story.

I mean the year Lebron had a lower TS% he went to the finals right? Leborn missed a bunch of free throws because his back was hurt and he gave it everything he had and more.

 

[Derek]

He has a habit of being hot and cold in the playoffs with some of the cold performances coming in must win games, so despite the numbers, he just isn't in Lebron's league of consistency. Really dumb plays on crucial possessions. I don't think him turning into a pumpkin in the playoffs is undeserved. The numbers just don't tell the whole story.

I mean the year Lebron had a lower TS% he went to the finals right? Leborn missed a bunch of free throws because his back was hurt and he gave it everything he had and more.

No more so than any other star IMO

And again, the point of my post was never to actually compare Harden to LeBron.

 

[Cavatt]

No more so than any other star IMO

And again, the point of my post was never to actually compare Harden to LeBron.

Well which Playoff series did Lebron lose that he was supposed to win? then do Harden.

 

[Derek]

Well which Playoff series did Lebron lose that he was supposed to win? then do Harden.

Why does that matter? I just said the point wasn't to compare the two players.

Either way, I don't see any series that Harden was supposed to win, and didn't. Maybe 2014 against Portland, but the two teams had the same record, so it's close.

 

[NorthCoastBias]

Well which Playoff series did Lebron lose that he was supposed to win?

Off the top of my head: 2009 ECF against the Magic, 2010 ECSF against the Celtics, and 2011 Finals against the Mavericks.

 

[MediumBaller]

It's still higher, right? You don't get to discount or prop up certain seasons, it all happened. Regardless, 57% true shooting is really damn efficient for a high usage player. My point was never to actually compare him to LeBron, just to bust the myth that Harden disappears in the playoffs.

Yes, he's had his struggles, but he's also had his share of great moments, as has any high usage star in the playoffs.

He's 49% on 2's, 32% on 3's, and gets to the line a ton while making them at a great clip. He's still been a tremendous performer in the playoffs despite what many like to think.

Sure, it's technically higher, but their percentages are essentially identical. I wasn't trying to discount or prop up certain seasons, I was just pointing out that LeBron had one really bad outlier season that dragged down his total.

Harden has taken 10+ three's in each of the past two postseasons, and he's shot 27.8% and 29.9% respectively. That's really really bad. His numbers go down when he gets to the playoffs, while other elite players' numbers go up.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

My point was never to actually compare him to LeBron, just to bust the myth that Harden disappears in the playoffs.

 

[cavsfever]

His career playoff TS% is actually higher than LeBron’s

this isn't evidence about Harden vs Lebron, it's just evidence that TS% is a very incomplete statistic.

BTW the difference between Harden and Lebron's playoff shooting efficiency is entirely driven by two things: A) the 2014-15 playoffs where Lebron willed our injury-ravaged team to Game 6 against the Warriors by taking all the shots because we didn't have anyone else to do it (not good for your efficiency stats), and B) Harden getting 11 FTA per game in the playoffs while Lebron gets 9. Take either of those things away and Lebron is well ahead of Harden in playoff offensive efficiency even though he has a significantly higher usage rating (32% vs 28%, takes 2.5 more shots per playoff game than Harden).

That's before you even get into defense

 

[cavsfever]

Only by .01. In his 6 years in Houston it's lower, 57.0% to Bron's 57.9%. LeBrons would be much higher if it wasn't for his atrocious 48.7 TS% in 2015. Harden is at 41/32/88 in the playoffs while with Houston.

sorry I missed this, made the same point.

 

[cavsfever]

No one wants to talk about how enjoyable Boston sucking and infighting is? Ky thought he could take a page from Brons book and be some kind of leader, not so much buddy. Hopefully they end up with a low seed and get their teeth kicked in by Milwaukee/Toronto.

This is very enjoyable and I would love to discuss it in detail.

Really looking forward to Boston getting washed out in the playoffs and Kyrie being a brat about it while his teammates subtweet about how they can't stand him.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Kyrie's comment about the young guys not having "championship mentality" is just one of the most hilariously ironic things ever when they got to Game 7 of the ECF without him.