2018 Around the MLB Thread

[sportscoach]

First ballot IMO

He should be, but let's see how the traditional voters deal with him since he lacks 300 wins and whatnot. I mean Mussina isn't in yet so we will see how CC fares with the guys who say you need these stats to get in.

 

[Derek]

He should be, but let's see how the traditional voters deal with him since he lacks 300 wins and whatnot. I mean Mussina isn't in yet so we will see how CC fares with the guys who say you need these stats to get in.

Could you please refrain from responding to me with all the outdated (and meaningless) HOF benchmarks. I really don’t give a shit about them.

 

[sportscoach]

Could you please refrain from responding to me with all the outdated (and meaningless) HOF benchmarks. I really don’t give a shit about them.

I wish they were irrelevant in this discussion, but sadly they are not yet especially when Mussina hasn't been elected yet. I completely understand where you are coming from since I whole heartily agree with you, but until the voters change their ways, we are stuck with the realization for now that guys like CC, Verlander etc who have dominated this era will not be first ballot hall of famers more than likely until the voters vote guys like Mussina and some others in from the era that didn't reach the 300 bench mark of wins.

 

[Derek]

I wish they were irrelevant in this discussion, but sadly they are not yet especially when Mussina hasn't been elected yet. I completely understand where you are coming from since I whole heartily agree with you, but until the voters change their ways, we are stuck with the realization for now that guys like CC, Verlander etc who have dominated this era will not be first ballot hall of famers more than likely until the voters vote guys like Mussina and some others in from the era that didn't reach the 300 bench mark of wins.

Again, I’ll ask you to refrain from responding to me with your HOF benchmark posts

 

[Real Deal]

That run CC had in Milwaukee is worth an first ballot alone. That was one of the most special starting pitching runs I've seen. He was basically a primed Shaquille O'Neal in the paint.

It's crazy to think CC is already in his 10th year with the Yankees, it's sad but he'll be wearing a Yankee hat on his HoF plaque.

Just like batting average, Wins doesn't matter shit to me.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I wish they were irrelevant in this discussion, but sadly they are not yet especially when Mussina hasn't been elected yet. I completely understand where you are coming from since I whole heartily agree with you, but until the voters change their ways, we are stuck with the realization for now that guys like CC, Verlander etc who have dominated this era will not be first ballot hall of famers more than likely until the voters vote guys like Mussina and some others in from the era that didn't reach the 300 bench mark of wins.

Mussina should be in--but for some reason, he just doesn't have the star appeal that his numbers say he should. I think Verlander goes in first ballot, and CC should be going in, but probably not first ballot.

 

[Urban]

CC also has 5 years minimum until he hits the ballot. The voters become more progressive thinking by the year, he'll definitely make it in.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Who the fuck is gonna be the next pitcher to get 300 wins?

You're gonna be holding your breath for a while if that's what you're waiting for coach.

 

[Stark]

Who the fuck is gonna be the next pitcher to get 300 wins?

You're gonna be holding your breath for a while if that's what you're waiting for coach.

Probably won't ever see a 300 game winner again. Trevor Bauer is on pace to have roughly 16 wins this season, which will put him at 63 for his career.

He's 27 years old. He'd have to win between 18 and 19 games until he's 40 just to get to 300 wins for his career. He's won 17 games once and is on pace to finish two below his needed benchmark in the best season of his career.

The best pitcher of the 21st century (in my opinion), Clayton Kershaw, is sitting at 149 wins for his career. He has been hurt this year and currently has 5 wins on the year. Say he gets to 10 wins so he ends the year at 154 career wins.

He'll be 31 at the start of next season. Say he pitches until he's 40 years old, which is probably over-optimistic considering the way injuries are starting to hamper him. Kershaw would have to win between 16-17 games every year from now until his age 40 season just to hit that mark. Not happening.

I think the only chance is if you get a powerhouse dominating arm that breaks into the league at age 21-22 and has close to two decades of all-star production. If you pitch 20 years in the MLB, you'd only need to average 15 wins per season. Throw in a few years at your peak where you win 20-22 games per year, and you might have a chance. Guys don't pitch into their early-mid 40s anymore like Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Don Sutton, and Early Wynn did to get that 300-win mark.

Only current guy that I think has any chance in the world is Justin Verlander. He'll get over 200 this year and will be 36 at the start of next year. Say he finishes this year at 205. If he pitches until he's 42 and wins close to 16 games a year, he'd get there. Throw in a 20 win season with the Astros and he has to win even less games in his 40s.

 

[sportscoach]

Who the fuck is gonna be the next pitcher to get 300 wins?

You're gonna be holding your breath for a while if that's what you're waiting for coach.

You have to remember I am not speaking for myself, which is something some of your guys are not getting, this is just the reality of the way the writers/voters are voting right now.

Sorry for being big and bold, but I feel Mussina and some others should be in without a doubt, but the more traditional voters will not vote a starting pitcher in right now without 300 wins. I am saying that because some of the voters will not vote in players without certain stats overall. These voters will not vote in CC, Mussina, etc because they don't reach those milestones, which I quite frankly feel is shitty of them because they are not taking the era into account. With only 34 starts a year, even 20 wins is pushing it anymore. so they need to look past the era of the 80s and 90s and remember that the 2000s on the ball game has changed and starters pitch a lot less so even if you make in a console game a pitcher 99 stats in everything but only give them 34 starts, it would be almost impossible even for that created person to get to 300 wins.

CC also has 5 years minimum until he hits the ballot. The voters become more progressive thinking by the year, he'll definitely make it in.

I think we all agree he should make it in, so hopefully the voters have changed enough to vote in guys that dominated the era. But people like to go by stats, do we make it 200 wins or a little more as like the qualifier to at least get voted on as a starter?

I mean guys like Kevin Brown and some others like that with 200 wins and were dominant at the moment will never get in since they never had the credentials. Brown has 211 wins with 476 starts and a 3.28 career era. Maddux ended up with 740 starts and 355 wins with a 3.16 career era. Most of the Dominate pitchers going forward wont see more than 500-550ish starts and even the best guys in the modern era, don't win more than 50% of their starts. CC has 530 starts with 244 wins. So maybe the 200 mark should be a bench mark to at least get votes, plus looking at everything else from the current era on?

I feel we need to reopen voting for Brown and some others like him with a new criteria. Also we need to put Lee Smith in since he was the one who pioneered the closer role, but thats just my opinion.

 

[MGMT]

dude stop. If 300 wins is going to continue to be a metric needed for HOF consideration they’re literally going to run out of options.

And quit speaking to the thoughts and actions of others as if it’s a goddamn fact.

 

[sportscoach]

dude stop. If 300 wins is going to continue to be a metric needed for HOF consideration they’re literally going to run out of options.

And quit speaking to the thoughts and actions of others as if it’s a goddamn fact.

Well it kind of is a fact they vote that way, and right now they still have that 300 wins, but with Morris going in and once Mussina goes in then the facts may be changing but for now, I am only gonna speak the truth about the voters.

 

[AZ_]

Laughably untenable position

 

[Scrote Squad]

How unprecedented is that, through 120 games, Seattle is 18 games over .500 with a -23 run differential? I always thought that a team with a +/- 0 run differential roughly equaled a .500 team. Am I wrong?

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

How unprecedented is that, through 120 games, Seattle is 18 games over .500 with a -23 run differential? I always thought that a team with a +/- 0 run differential roughly equaled a .500 team. Am I wrong?

Off the top of my head I remember 2 years ago the Rangers were similarly lucky

Just checked and they were +8 run differential and 28 games over .500