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2018 Draft Prospects Thread

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IDK what else to tell you, your mind is just set and you refuse to see things from another POV.
I feel like you are the same way but on the opposite stance though especially illustrated by this

You're wrong on this. The only question should be, will one game off do Kizer any good compared to the 2 or 3 games he should have had.


I think this comes down to what you believe Hue's motive was for benching Kizer. You took him at face value and I respect that. ImwithDan and I genuinely believe that Hue did it because he thought it was his best chance to win. When you're 1-20 it's hard to imagine a guy playing the long game after playing the short game all year.

But that fundamental difference of opinion of motive won't allow us to see eye to eye on this. Which is fine. I just don't think this conversation will go anywhere because I think that difference in belief is what's driving our differing opinions on this.
 
I think this comes down to what you believe Hue's motive was for benching Kizer. You took him at face value and I respect that. ImwithDan and I genuinely believe that Hue did it because he thought it was his best chance to win. When you're 1-20 it's hard to imagine a guy playing the long game after playing the short game all year.

This gets at what I am saying. Kizer was deemed by almost all experts as a high ceiling prospect but one that needed seasoning and development.

Our seasoning and development was to jettison a veteran QB who could have taken his lumps, I'm sure at Hue's request, in order to pave the way for Kizer to play immediately.

That tells me a few things.

1. That Hue thought Kizer was ready to play. If he didn't, it makes no sense to let Brock go.

2. That because he thought he was ready to play, that he also deemed Kizer as giving him the best chance to win. It's open for debate wether he thought that was long term or short but I suspect Hue thought it was both.

The fact that he thought 5 weeks ago Kizer was his best chance to win in the long and short term and then immediately reversed course for Hogan (after publicly stating Kizer would play through the ups and downs) makes me wonder if he knows what he's doing (or he's just panicking to win a game). It seems fair to have that opinion but what do I know.

At face value, I can see how someone could buy in to it actually being in Kizer's best interest (if you lived in a vacuum and ignored all the other ancillary things that hint at this staff being in over their head). If you look at the bigger picture, it's a little tougher for me to give Hue the benefit of the doubt here.
 
This gets at what I am saying. Kizer was deemed by almost all experts as a high ceiling prospect but one that needed seasoning and development.

Our seasoning and development was to jettison a veteran QB who could have taken his lumps, I'm sure at Hue's request, in order to pave the way for Kizer to play immediately.

That tells me a few things.

1. That Hue thought Kizer was ready to play. If he didn't, it makes no sense to let Brock go.

2. That because he thought he was ready to play, that he also deemed Kizer as giving him the best chance to win. It's open for debate wether he thought that was long term or short but I suspect Hue thought it was both.

The fact that he thought 5 weeks ago Kizer was the best chance to win in the long and short term and then immediately reversed course for Hogan (after publicly stating Kizer would play through the ups and downs) makes me wonder if he knows what he's doing (or he's just panicking to win a game). It seems fair to have that opinion but what do I know.

1. They jettisoned TWO veteran QB's-- the Brocketship and McCown

2. Kizer starting was 100% an organization decision.... not just Hue's.... which is why I'm souring on this entire regime. Their plan for the QB spot this year was that they had no plan and that's a big problem because they likely just flushed a 2nd round pick down the shitter.
 
I think this comes down to what you believe Hue's motive was for benching Kizer. You took him at face value and I respect that. ImwithDan and I genuinely believe that Hue did it because he thought it was his best chance to win. When you're 1-20 it's hard to imagine a guy playing the long game after playing the short game all year.

But that fundamental difference of opinion of motive won't allow us to see eye to eye on this. Which is fine. I just don't think this conversation will go anywhere because I think that difference in belief is what's driving our differing opinions on this.
If Hogan played as a starter the way he played in relief we probably would have had a better chance to win as opposed to Kizer regressing and backsliding into worse and worse mistakes. So, I think the reality was that Hue sat Kizer for both reasons; one to try to see if Hogan could play winning football, the other being to let Kizer reboot his brain a little bit. I don't think for one second that Hue saw Hogan as a permanent replacement for Kizer, only a placeholder while Kizer got a chance to pull his shit together.

In developing a quarterback there are going to be steps forward and steps back. Kizer started off well but he was starting to only take backward steps. His mistakes were starting to compound themselves. He was pressing and that was only making things worse. IMO he could have used at least 2 weeks to reset himself, he only got one. I still think even this one week will help but we'll see on Sunday.
 
He couldn't have learned that in the pre-season? I think what you are describing is a massive reach in regards to the 1 week benching.

Kizer learned about as much about football from watching one game as I would learn from reading 1 page of a book about astrophysics.

Let's cut through the hyperbole. You are claiming Kizer, who has regressed from week one to week six consistently, couldn't benefit from a week off of the pressure of starting. What are the bye weeks in place to do? As I've said previously, the ideal isn't an option. There's no veteran bridge QB walking through that door. Hogan might have had support for earning a week to show what he can do after two weeks of better play than Kizer. We don't know what the locker room wants. I can say Hogan isn't the long-term development project and without question the 21 year old 2nd rounder is. There's no ideal here, but giving Kizer a week break to right his tailspin has been done in the past with rookie starters. Again, he should not have started the season to begin with... the coach is choosing between two evils.

Additionally, what you are describing above is a failure of either coaching, personnel decisions or both. There was no reason to cut Brock. We didn't save money doing it. We could have easily started him for 7-8 games and then went to Kizer but the FO / Staff chose NOT to do that. Just another one of the reasons (on a long list) of why they should all be fired.

Brock sucks. The GM wanted the 2nd rounder that came with Brock because attempts to get a real bridge QB failed. Do you think this team has the talent to win in 2017? I never did. This is clearly a multi-year rebuild with contracts in place to maintain the front office and coaches through the long extended rebuild. You can want a faster rebuild, but you aren't going to get it. Not with how talent deficient this team was after Farmer left a scorched Earth. Now if Kizer doesn't have what it takes mentally to being benched after spending two or three weeks looking like the least prepared QB in the league, he is a former QB at age 21. He HAS to be mentally strong enough to take some time outs and be ready for his next opportunity... because his career depends upon it.
 
Let's cut through the hyperbole. You are claiming Kizer, who has regressed from week one to week six consistently, couldn't benefit from a week off of the pressure of starting. What are the bye weeks in place to do? As I've said previously, the ideal isn't an option. There's no veteran bridge QB walking through that door. Hogan might have had support for earning a week to show what he can do after two weeks of better play than Kizer. We don't know what the locker room wants. I can say Hogan isn't the long-term development project and without question the 21 year old 2nd rounder is. There's no ideal here, but giving Kizer a week break to right his tailspin has been done in the past with rookie starters. Again, he should not have started the season to begin with... the coach is choosing between two evils.



Brock sucks. The GM wanted the 2nd rounder that came with Brock because attempts to get a real bridge QB failed. Do you think this team has the talent to win in 2017? I never did. This is clearly a multi-year rebuild with contracts in place to maintain the front office and coaches through the long extended rebuild. You can want a faster rebuild, but you aren't going to get it. Not with how talent deficient this team was after Farmer left a scorched Earth. Now if Kizer doesn't have what it takes mentally to being benched after spending two or three weeks looking like the least prepared QB in the league, he is a former QB at age 21. He HAS to be mentally strong enough to take some time outs and be ready for his next opportunity... because his career depends upon it.
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A second round rookie QB and the worst WR corps in the league makes for one gigantic hurdle to overcome. The injury to Coleman just made a bad situation worse, and Crowell being below average...there just aren't enough weapons.

However, our list of "needs" is smaller than it has been in a long time. The OL, DL, LB's, and TE's all are in good shape. We badly need a stud WR, a FS, and a CB. Probably a QB but that's unknown. And we could use a plus RB, because Crowell is garbage.

But we have 5 picks in the first two rounds, and a shitload of cap space. This is fixable if given enough time.
 
Not sure where to ask this, but has anyone heard from @AZ_ lately? Haven't seen him post in about a month, just wondering if he is OK. I always appreciate his insight.
 
Not sure where to ask this, but has anyone heard from @AZ_ lately? Haven't seen him post in about a month, just wondering if he is OK. I always appreciate his insight.

There were a number of his posts in the politics thread that were personal attacks, and he has been temp banned pretty much every few months for years. It's a longer ban this time.
 
Saquon Barkley is unbelievable... had a 69 yard touchdown on first possession and then scored another 3 min later... browns need to get this kid
 

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