2018 NBA Draft - June 21

[Nathan S]

I'm not sure how anyone could possibly rate Bamba that low with his size defensive ability and his reformed jump shot. Not to mention the videos of him and Joel working out and some of the redefine footwork he's showing in the post

I think it's risky to read too much into 1-on-1 and 1-on-0 workouts, especially for a prospect like Bamba whose weaknesses largely revolve around his slower-than-expected decision making ability. That said, I still like him over Ayton and Bagley.

 

[bob2the2nd]

I'm not sure how anyone could possibly rate Bamba that low with his size defensive ability and his reformed jump shot. Not to mention the videos of him and Joel working out and some of the redefine footwork he's showing in the post

In all fairness in the last couple of weeks i feel like there has been a dramatic change in rge drafts, so it could be smoke. All of a sudden young is a top 6 pick, porter falls to the cavs in a bunch of drafts ive seen, and dondic is threatening to fall out of the top 3.

As long as cavs get one of porter, young, dondic, JJJ, carter, Bagley, bamba, or ayton im happy**

** i would rather they use the pick as a trade peice for another all star

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Y tho?

Cause I believe being a tweener is the best thing ever in the NBA. I see him as an absolute elite closeout attacker, multi positional defender and a pretty good one on the perimeter now that he has lost weight, a decent passer, good rebounder and a very high energy guy as his floor. *Miles low steal rate does concern me.

Mikal Bridges? He just has a higher bust chance. People are downplaying how problematic his weight and size is.

• He gets pushed around on the boards by wings
• Too soft or scared to set screens on the offensive end...every time he is told to set a screen he evades it at the last second
• has trouble checking quicker guards and has serious issues with handling screens as his technique is seriously flawed, and will not be able to check front court players on a switch unless he somehow improves his lower body strength(At least early on, though I don't believe his legs have promise lol). Was in the 10th percentile as a post defender as a sophomore...while he is in the 85th percentile as a post defender now(only 21 possessions), I believe he is going to look much closer to how he looked as a sophomore. Overpowered and overmatched. He was such a good team defender because he was able to switch a ridiculous amount of screens...do you think it's going to be the same case in the NBA? If he isn't getting scored on in the post, is he going to be able to handle the boards on a switch?
• below average passer
• below average as a shooter off the dribble which significantly limits his upside as a shooter and as an overall player...teams will most likely switch the off-ball screens which is problematic unless he is able to punish them for it; isn't explosive coming off screens either...while he is able to shoot over defenders is he going to make them from NBA 3? is he capable of coming off screens and shooting them from above the break? I doubt it.

;Is he going to be able to punish smaller players in the post with his build? is he going to punish bigger man with his sub par handles and average efficiency off the dribble?

As a 3pt shooter which he is supposed to be great at, the majority of his attempts come from the wings which he is elite at, though he is just average to below average from above the break. Which is huge. Seriously, how much his value drops if that's also the case in the NBA? You can find great corner 3 shooters everywhere and it limits the actions that we are going to be able to run for him signicantly.

Okay as a mid range shooter coming off-screens and when he doesn't have to put the ball on the floor, but as trouble shooting from mid range when he has to put the ball on the floor.

I also want aa player like him to be able to run the PnR efficnetly as a shooter. While he was good as a PnR Ball Handler in College, he was mostly efficient as a passer and as as a penetrator. Struggled when he had to take a dribble jumer. Again, if he isn't able to become efficient at that then his value drops for me. Signicantly.

I put a lot of emphasize on Nova's system, which to me he benefitted a ton from.
Do you even think he was the best player on his own team? FYI, every player in Nova's rotation had EXCELLENT offensive efficiency. He played on a team with absolutely crazy spacing, 3pt ability that ran an BNA system. A system that every player excelled at. I compare it to GSW's system and we both know how good their role players look.

He is going to be close to 22 when the season starts right? Mikal is being talked as someone who is supposed to be an immediate impact player, but how is he different than a rookie Otto Porter(Which is still considered skinny evenghough he is overall much bigger and has a much better frame)? Porter as a rookie was absolutely terrible and it took him 3 years to become a slightly above average starter...what makes people think Mikal isn't going to need an adjustment period with his weight issues and his inability to create? and what if he is never able to put on enough weight in order to deal with strong SF,PFs and Cs as his build doesn't instill much confidence in me in that regard.

By far my biggest concern is his build and it's not even close. All the rest of the issues that I have are not of signifcant important is his shot translates. You just don't see tons of successful players with his build...the only one that comes close is Durant, but he is 7'0 and is ridiculously good off the dribble.

If Mikal was 20 then I wouldn't have nearly the same concerns. But he is not, he is 22. It's not the same case as Giannis coming into the league for example...

NBA is just much more about girth than it is about length nowadays. As the opposing team will get the matchup that they want.

I'm not saying that Miles should be the Cavaliers pick. What i'm saying that I got a handlful of prospects that I'd rather roll the dice on. His chance to bust is much much higher than his chance to become a starter or a star...heck even a good role player.

I just don't want the Cavs this selection to be an extension of the Celtics trade where we are being goofed by the system. Jay Wright to me is Brad Stevens, and he makes his players better. I think you need to take this into consideration and vice versa...players that are obviously talented, but suffer from efficiency issues because of the lack of system.

Are you content with him being the return for Kyrie over other players in this deep draft? what makes Mikal better than some talent in the mid 1st round?

I very much be wrong...you really can't know. Regardless if he pans out or not, I still have players that I'd much rather roll the dice on.

@Cavatt

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

In all fairness in the last couple of weeks i feel like there has been a dramatic change in rge drafts, so it could be smoke. All of a sudden young is a top 6 pick, porter falls to the cavs in a bunch of drafts ive seen, and dondic is threatening to fall out of the top 3.

As long as cavs get one of porter, young, dondic, JJJ, carter, Bagley, bamba, or ayton im happy**

** i would rather they use the pick as a trade peice for another all star

Doncic* I guess you know this, but maybe your keyboard is fucked up so i'm letting you know.

 

[Nathan S]

Cause I believe being a tweener is the best thing ever in the NBA. I see him as an absolute elite closeout attacker, multi positional defender and a pretty good one on the perimeter now that he has lost weight, a decent passer, good rebounder and a very high energy guy as his floor.

Mikal Bridges? He just has a higher bust chance. People are downplaying how problematic his weight and size is.

• He gets pushed around on the boards by wings
• Too soft or scared to set screens on the offensive end...every time he is told to set a screen he evades it at the last second
• has trouble checking quicker guards and has serious issues with handling screens as his technique is seriously flawed, and will not be able to check front court players on a switch unless he somehow improves his lower body strength(At least early on, though I don't believe his legs have promise lol). Was in the 10th percentile as a post defender as a sophomore...while he is in the 85th percentile as a post defender now(only 21 possessions), I believe he is going to look much closer to how he looked as a sophomore. Overpowered and overmatched. He was such a good team defender because he was able to switch a ridiculous amount of screens...do you think it's going to be the same case in the NBA? If he isn't getting scored on in the post, is he going to be able to handle the boards on a switch?
• below average passer
• below average as a shooter off the dribble which significantly limits his upside as a shooter and as an overall player...teams will most likely switch the off-ball screens which is problematic unless he is able to punish them for it; isn't explosive coming off screens either...while he is able to shoot over defenders is he going to make them from NBA 3? is he capable of coming off screens and shooting them from above the break? I doubt it.

;Is he going to be able to punish smaller players in the post with his build? is he going to punish bigger man with his sub par handles and average efficiency off the dribble?

As a 3pt shooter which he is supposed to be great at, the majority of his attempts come from the wings which he is elite at, though he is just average to below average from above the break. Which is huge. Seriously, how much his value drops if that's also the case in the NBA? You can find great corner 3 shooters everywhere and it limits the actions that we are going to be able to run for him signicantly.

Okay as a mid range shooter coming off-screens and when he doesn't have to put the ball on the floor, but as trouble shooting from mid range when he has to put the ball on the floor.

I also want aa player like him to be able to run the PnR efficnetly as a shooter. While he was good as a PnR Ball Handler in College, he was mostly efficient as a passer and as as a penetrator. Struggled when he had to take a dribble jumer. Again, if he isn't able to become efficient at that then his value drops for me. Signicantly.

I put a lot of emphasize on Nova's system, which to me he benefitted a ton from.
Do you even think he was the best player on his own team? FYI, every player in Nova's rotation had EXCELLENT offensive efficiency. He played on a team with absolutely crazy spacing, 3pt ability that ran an BNA system. A system that every player excelled at. I compare it to GSW's system and we both know how good their role players look.

He is going to be close to 22 when the season starts right? Mikal is being talked as someone who is supposed to be an immediate impact player, but how is he different than a rookie Otto Porter(Which is still considered skinny evenghough he is overall much bigger and has a much better frame)? Porter as a rookie was absolutely terrible and it took him 3 years to become a slightly above average starter...what makes people think Mikal isn't going to need an adjustment period with his weight issues and his inability to create? and what if he is never able to put on enough weight in order to deal with strong SF,PFs and Cs as his build doesn't instill much confidence in me in that regard.

By far my biggest concern is his build and it's not even close. All the rest of the issues that I have are not of signifcant important is his shot translates. You just don't see tons of successful players with his build...the only one that comes close is Durant, but he is 7'0 and is ridiculously good off the dribble.

If Mikal was 20 then I wouldn't have nearly the same concerns. But he is not, he is 22. It's not the same case as Giannis coming into the league for example...

NBA is just much more about girth than it is about length nowadays. As the opposing team will get the matchup that they want.

I'm not saying that Miles should be the Cavaliers pick. What i'm saying that I got a handlful of prospects that I'd rather roll the dice on. His chance to bust is much much higher than his chance to become a starter or a star...heck even a good role player.

I just don't want the Cavs this selection to be an extension of the Celtics trade where we are being goofed by the system. Jay Wright to me is Brad Stevens, and he makes his players better. I think you need to take this into consideration and vice versa...players that are obviously talented, but suffer from efficiency issues because of the lack of system.

Are you content with him being the return for Kyrie over other players in this deep draft? what makes Mikal better than some talented in the mid 1st round?

I very much be wrong, but it's the NBA, so you never know. Regardless if he pans out or not, I still have players that I'd much ather roll the dice on.

@Cavatt

I'm aware of the case against Mikal, and I'm not particularly high on him either. I just don't see the case in favor of Miles.

You take for granted that his strength and athleticism will make him a plus multi-positional defender, but what evidence is there that he was a plus defender even at the college level, where he got very few steals/blocks and his team was worse defensively with him on the court?

On offense I think he's fairly comparable to Mikal, projecting as a somewhat better creator and a somewhat worse outside shooter.

I'm also generally not very forgiving to players whose teams underperform, especially players like Miles who've already been around the block and fail to make serious improvements. If he couldn't evolve and adapt and find a way to win at the college level, how will he adjust to the much tougher NBA?

 

[LeeBuckeye]

I'm not sure how anyone could possibly rate Bamba that low with his size defensive ability and his reformed jump shot. Not to mention the videos of him and Joel working out and some of the redefine footwork he's showing in the post

Bamba sprints 3/4 of the court faster than Russ but barely got down the floor all game against Oklahoma and doesn't appear to have anywhere close to the motor that Gobert has. Does he have the ability to keep up with NBA guards in pnr situations will be a big question mark for him.

 

[MirORich]

So far it's come out today that Doncic, Kurucs, Bonga, and Musa will all remain in the draft. Haven't seen anything Okobo yet.

Not sure any of it really affects the Cavs though, as Doncic was a no brainer and will be gone before 8 and the other guys are all mid-teens to 2nd rounders, were we aren't picking unless something drastic happens draft night.

 

[daddywags]

So are we settling in to a top 8 (in some order) of Ayton, Doncic, Bagley, Bamba, Porter, Young, Jackson and Carter? Who breaks into that group? Anybody?

 

[wremy]

So are we settling in to a top 8 (in some order) of Ayton, Doncic, Bagley, Bamba, Porter, Young, Jackson and Carter? Who breaks into that group? Anybody?

Sexton would be my guess if anyone

 

[kookoo]

Sexton would be my guess if anyone

I hope it's not us that breaks him in. (phrasing)

 

[Adam]

With all this talk about players killing it in suns workouts anyone think they are trying to do a Boston and trade out of the 1 pick and still get their guy? Seems risky.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I'm aware of the case against Mikal, and I'm not particularly high on him either. I just don't see the case in favor of Miles.

Just have him ahead of him and it will probably stay that way.

An analytical model that projects success had Mikal at 58% to bust, 20% to become a role player, 16% to become a starter and only 5% to become a star. 58% is way too high for a top 8 pick. I'm not projecting his success according to that model, but it gives you an idea.

You take for granted that his strength and athleticism will make him a plus multi-positional defender, but what evidence is there that he was a plus defender even at the college level, where he got very few steals/blocks and his team was worse defensively with him on the court?

Michigan were also worse defensively with Jaren Jackson on the court. So...

The one thing I'm concerned about is his low steal rate...for sure. He was a good Isolation and post defender and I think that's huge in the NBA. He won't be targeted on the defensive end, and I can't confidently say the same about Mikal in a playoffs settings.

On offense I think he's fairly comparable to Mikal, projecting as a somewhat better creator and a somewhat worse outside shooter.

I'm not thrilled about him as a creator mainly because he lacks explosiveness with a live dribble. The difference between them for me is greater than that. But yeah, he projects to shoot better off the dribble.

But again, i'm not really sure about Mikal as a shooter right now. Definitely not a sure thing for me. Where do you rank him as shooter in this draft (positions 1-3)

I'm also generally not very forgiving to players whose teams underperform, especially players like Miles who've already been around the block and fail to make serious improvements. If he couldn't evolve and adapt and find a way to win at the college level, how will he adjust to the much tougher NBA?

Doesn't mean much. Winning and improving his stats are two different things. Yes, he hasn't improved his raw stats in his sophomore year, but he played a different position in a pretty shitty offensive system tbh.

tougher NBA? how? It's easier to create open looks in the NBA nowadays.

Anyhow, my post was more about Mikal rather than trying to sell people on Miles, as they are usually brought up together with Mikal clearly being the superior talent, which at this point I disagree with.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Mikal Bridges has displayed excellent shooting at all three levels and exceptional free throw percentage for three years. The college game doesn't produce many established and proven shooters like that who also have an NBA frame anymore. Be concerned with his physicality, sure... but if that guy has shooting concerns everyone not named Trae Young has bigger shooting issues.

 

[Nathan S]

Just have him ahead of him and it will probably stay that way.

An analytical model that projects success had Mikal at 58% to bust, 20% to become a role player, 16% to become a starter and only 5% to become a star. 58% is way too high for a top 8 pick. I'm not projecting his success according to that model, but it gives you an idea.

My own model, which I trust more, has him much less likely to bust. And neither model, as far as I'm aware, accounts for team-level success or plus/minus stats, both of which are massively in favor of Mikal. Even after accounting for that I don't think he has the same kind of upside as most other lottery guys, but I think he's a very safe bet to be a solid NBA player.

Michigan were also worse defensively with Jaren Jackson on the court. So...

The one thing I'm concerned about is his low steal rate...for sure. He was a good Isolation and post defender and I think that's huge in the NBA. He won't be targeted on the defensive end, and I can't confidently say the same about Mikal in a playoffs settings.

That's not true about Jackson (assuming @ReferSadness's on/off numbers are correct). Michigan was modestly better defensively with him on the court. Mikal easily had the best defensive on/off numbers of any 'Nova player. I wouldn't take for granted that Miles won't get targeted, especially if he ends up playing PF where his lack of size will be particularly glaring.

I'm not thrilled about him as a creator mainly because he lacks explosiveness with a live dribble. The difference between them for me is greater than that. But yeah, he projects to shoot better off the dribble.

But again, i'm not really sure about Mikal as a shooter right now. Definitely not a sure thing for me. Where do you rank him as shooter in this draft (positions 1-3)

I like Mikal a lot as a shooter because of his rare combination of size and accuracy. Defenders will really have to stay glued to him to offer a good contest, and that's valuable. Wish he could shoot better off the dribble, in which case I'd be more comfortable taking him at #8, but he is what he is.

Doesn't mean much. Winning and improving his stats are two different things. Yes, he hasn't improved his raw stats in his sophomore year, but he played a different position in a pretty shitty offensive system tbh.

tougher NBA? how? It's easier to create open looks in the NBA nowadays.

Anyhow, my post was more about Mikal rather than trying to sell people on Miles, as they are usually brought up together with Mikal clearly being the superior talent, which at this point I disagree with.

Maybe I'm overrating the importance of team success...but...I find it hard to look past the fact that Michigan State and Arizona were 2/3 in the preseason AP poll, and everyone was sure Bridges and Ayton were going to dominate and carry those teams to deep march madness runs, and then they both lost early on to mediocre teams. And then in retrospect everyone is like "oh yeah, their coaches suck! their systems suck!" and everyone ignores the fact that the players themselves played like dogshit. And in contrast, everyone is like "wow, what an amazing system 'Nova has!" and they sort of underrate how impressive it is for those players to go out and consistently play winning basketball day in and day out.

At the end of the day it's a 5-on-5 game, not a 1-on-1 game. Who in this class has the best natural understanding of how to win that game?

 

[weepinwillow]

I like Mikal as well. He has a lot of the physical tools you look for, he can shoot it and he plays smart basketball. I think his ceiling is Klay and his floor is Otto. If someone told me "you get next Klay Thompson at #8." I don't ask questions and take it. If someone said, "you get next Otto Porter at #8." I probably ask, "who else was available?"

I guess there are concerns that he can't win a game of one on one, but a smart player can use a good shot to get to spots. We can pick our one on one guy next year when we go through a post James season.