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2018 NBA Draft

Discussion in 'Trades, Free Agency, & the Draft' started by guitarlifter, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. 3 Ball...GOT IT

    3 Ball...GOT IT pipe

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    Yep, and the question is whether or not his explosiveness and ability to get quickly off the floor can negate some of the reach issues. Here, it clearly doesn't, and I'm not confident in it being able to.
     
  2. Nathan S

    Nathan S Leaping strong buildings!

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    As a rule of thumb, it's pretty hard to find examples of college players (with the exception of some point guards) who averaged less than ~2 steals+blocks per game but went on to be successful NBA players. Bagley averaging 1.6 at the moment, Ayton squeaking by at 2.0. They have their work cut out for them if they want to contend for top-3 picks.
     
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  3. Sir'Dom Pointer

    Sir'Dom Pointer Bamba mentality

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    People are giving him a pass because of his motor and athletic ability. In people's eyes good motor and athleticism somehow equal being a decent defender, but it's not the case.

    I'm much more intirgued by Ayton's development than Bagleys. I want to see if Ayton can improve his defensive awareness and help defense. Bagley will probably improve as a 3pt shooter, but he is going to look more or less the same on offense, and his defense imo is going to follow him for some time.
     
  4. 3 Ball...GOT IT

    3 Ball...GOT IT pipe

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    This really is the crux of it. All of these bigs have major flaws in their games.

    It's just a matter of picking between which flaw is the least negatively impactful after factoring in each's odds of improving on it.

    In Bagley's case for example, I'd say the odds are pretttttty slim that his arms are going to grow a couple of inches each.

    I think this is why we've mostly all got the sentiment that picking in the 2-5 range is scary as hell right now.
     
  5. blommen

    blommen Pissing Excellence

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    If we list the 2-5 guys right now what would you say their biggest flaws are? I'm asking because I'm kinda new to this and I'm trying to get a proper picture of the top 5-10 prospects.

    So far, from what I've gathered

    Bagley: short arms, bad defensive fundamentals and instincts, lacks nba range and isn't good enough with the ball in his man off the dribble

    Ayton: doesn't play with enough physicality, is passive both on offense and defense, takes plays off, doesn't have good instincts for protecting the rim

    Porter: Injury history is a major concern, doesn't have the proper range for the NBA

    Bamba: questionable motor, beyond raw on offense, thin lower body frame

    Jackson: Can't create for himself off the dribble, generally awkward on offense, jumper, while servicable in high school, is unorthodox to say the least, disappears on offense
     
  6. Nathan S

    Nathan S Leaping strong buildings!

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    Honestly, you could make Bagley's arms a couple inches longer and it'd hardly affect my evaluation of him. It's not like he's juuuuuust missing out on steals and blocks because his arms are too short; he doesn't put himself in a position to get steals and block shots in the first place.

    I'm not writing him off yet because it's early in the season and he seems like a guy who's willing to learn. It'll be interesting to watch his evolution, or lack thereof, on defense between now and draft day.
     
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  7. 3 Ball...GOT IT

    3 Ball...GOT IT pipe

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    You've got the jist of it with those guys. Ayton's really own major flaw to me is his lack of rim protection/defensive IQ. Could kill him as a prospect or make him a top 3-5 center in the NBA.

    Jackson just his overall offensive game is a question mark for me.

    Bamba the same.
     
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  8. Sir'Dom Pointer

    Sir'Dom Pointer Bamba mentality

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    I still want Bamba as I truly believe his tools are game chagning with the right development. So far it doesn't look like he is going to be in our range. It's not just tools though, on the defensive end his timing on his blocks is very very good and the fact that he isn't foul prone is a great sign. Sure, he has a tendency to foul when out of position, but everytime he is position he blocks the ball every damn time. Not once did I see him swipe at the ball and hit the hand.

    His explosiveness in the half court as far as PnR go is underwhelming so far, but his max vertical is very good as seen by that ridiculous dunk. It might be due to lack of repeatitions and coordination jumping off of two legs in the PnR, so it's too early to tell.

    I think i'm more drawn to Bigs like that is because we have never had that sort of big. But his bust potential is there if he isn't a factor in the half court.

    A question though... I'm watching the games live and I have no idea where I can find full games to watch in retrospect. Do you guys have any source?
     
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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  9. blommen

    blommen Pissing Excellence

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    This youtube channel has a bunch of games, but not all of them. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX9FwXIs1RgsKq7lZmiP0Yw

    With regards to Bamba, he's probably got the most defensive upside out of everyone in the draft, outside of Ayton who is physically superior but doesn't have Bambas instincts. He also seems to have a very natural feel for the game in general and I could easily see him become a useful offensive player.

    I think I'm a bit more partial to Jackson because I feel like his defense is a bit more, like, advanced I guess? He also basically has the size, frame and footwork that I think you would need in order to physically contain Giannis which I think we will have to prepare for somewhere down the road. He may not have Bamba's go-go gadget arms or upside, but he's still very long, very smart, quick on his feet and has the physical frame needed to pack on muscle to hold the freak.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  10. 3 Ball...GOT IT

    3 Ball...GOT IT pipe

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    Yea I agree. If he never develops an offensive game he's still beyond playable and will serve a great purpose. Another aspect of his game is that he can block shots with either hand. A lot of guys aren't comfortable with this (just go watch that GIF again i posted of Bagley, he's not comfortable blocking shots with his right hand).

    There's a good shot Ayton or another big turns out to be better than Bamba, but I think Bamba is the safe play right now
     
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  11. Sir'Dom Pointer

    Sir'Dom Pointer Bamba mentality

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    Yep. He is comfortable blocking with either hand, and the way he swiped at the ball is just so quick and precide... that's surprising to me because his wingspan shouldn't allow him to be that precise.
    Gobert for example isn't that talented of a shot blocker despite his wingspan... he doesn't have the same instincts as Bamba.

    I think Jackson is also kind of safe as bet as bigs go, but I'm just afraid that his shot blocking ability isn't going to translate as well as Bambas... same way that TT's never translated. Sure, he is a better defensive player than TT ever was in college, but the similarities are there.

    I watched some interviews of Bamba and the guy is just super smart and articulate... theres a difference between basketball smarts and being smart. But with guys like that you have to be careful as there's a chance that basketball may not be their sole interest. The guys that usually succeed are the guys that their whole life revolves around basketball. Jaren Jackson reminds me of Draymond Green in TT's body on the court... plays with tons of intensity and passion, Bamba, is more quiet and reserved.

    Just a small observation.

    @blommen Thanks man!
     
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  12. Nathan S

    Nathan S Leaping strong buildings!

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    If we're gonna talk about defensive upside (or upside in general), what matters is not only how likely prospects are to improve, but also how good they are right now.

    If Ayton makes huge strides defensively, for instance, he could be one of the better defensive bigs in the NBA. But if Bamba makes the same huge strides, he could be one of the best defensive players of all time simply because he's starting from a much higher floor.
     
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  13. howler1313

    howler1313 NBA Starter

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    Another thing about those skinny, super long prospects like Bamba is they usually gain athleticism once they start to fill out. KD, Giannis, even Ingram all noticeably improved physically with age. In a few years Bamba could have the strength as well as the length to dominate most people he goes against.
     
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  14. blommen

    blommen Pissing Excellence

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    I'm a bit wary of Bamba's legs personally. He has a great upper body frame that can stand to pack on a good deal of muscle mass, but his legs are SO skinny. He's earily well coordinated with them for guy who is as long as he is, and same goes for his hands. I just wonder how well they are going to hold up under grind of a full nba season.
     
  15. 3 Ball...GOT IT

    3 Ball...GOT IT pipe

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    He's much much stronger than he appears in the lower body I think. I remember this play specifically that a few of us noted awhile back at the start of the PK80 tournament. Skip to 15 seconds in



    He moves Bagley with so much ease there even though he didn't finish. Then at about 45 seconds into the video, he's able to back down Wendell Carter pretty well too even though he gives up about 30 lbs in that matchup.

    He definitely needs to add some weight though.
     
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