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2019 Browns Off Season/Roster Discussion

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We can't say for sure it's an either/or scenario, but facts are facts. Spending whatever amount they plan to spend on McCoy literally means that much less to spend next offseason.

This also sparks an entirely different debate about how drafting arguably becomes even more critical when you have several high priced blue chip players like the Browns already have and are going to have even more of moving forward.

Drafting is always important, but when you have multiple guys being paid near the top of their position like the Browns already have with Beckham/Vernon/Landry/Bitonio with several more on the way (Garrett, Mayfield, Ward), it makes it very difficult to afford much of a middle class on your roster.

This sounds crazy, but the Browns have hit on enough blue chip talent at the right spots to be highly competitive RIGHT NOW and for the immediate future. What Dorsey and his crew are going to really need to do next is hit on some of their non-obvious (2nd/3rd round and later) picks to keep this window open as long as possible. Guys like Callaway, Avery, Corbett, Takitaki, Redwine, Wilson are the guys who really need to develop into starting caliber players by their 2nd or 3rd years so the Browns can replace the guys in front of them making 7-10M per season.

If the Browns can draft really well, they can afford to skimp out on the middle class without it killing them on the field and instead focus on just paying the premium to have as many star players as possible.

Or guys adequate enough.

The Patriots have demonstrated, and even the Steelers, that if you have your franchise QB, and cornerstones on both sides, surrounding them with B type players is enough to contend.

Drafting homeruns that can replace cornerstones when they get too expensive are what ensures being a title favorite, or a dynasty, for years.

The Browns can pay their cornerstones of QB, WR, T, DE and CB, and hope to draft every other position with decent, but not necessarily great, talent on four year cycles to stay contenders and stay under the cap.
 
Or guys adequate enough.

The Patriots have demonstrated, and even the Steelers, that if you have your franchise QB, and cornerstones on both sides, surrounding them with B type players is enough to contend.

Drafting homeruns that can replace cornerstones when they get too expensive are what ensures being a title favorite, or a dynasty, for years.

The Browns can pay their cornerstones of QB, WR, T, DE and CB, and hope to draft every other position with decent, but not necessarily great, talent on four year cycles to stay contenders and stay under the cap.

Also another thing both of those teams do really well with is the fact they find players who fit the system that they have in place in the waiver/bargain bin of the NFL. Patriots very rarely draft in the first round, if anything they have a ton of picks in round 3 on and yet they produce every single season. It is about getting a system in place and finding guys to fit that system and keep filling in the guys for that system.

Cleveland has never gotten a true system into place since we have never kept one long enough, so hopefully since Kitchens is in his 40s and Baker is a young player, we don't have to change either guy for a long time which would help us get that system since I mean, a healthy QB with all the rules nowadays can play into his late 30s so we could have these two together as long as Brady and Belicheck have been together.
 
Baker Mayfield's a Bust. 3rder at best.

Shoulda got Rosen from Arizona to be his backup :chuckle:
 
In a absolutely perfect world, by 2020 or 2021...

Takitaki and Wilson have replaced Schobert and Kirksey
Redwine has replaced Randall
Callaway has replaced Landry
Avery has replaced Vernon

And you're paying those five guys 5M total instead of the 55M the guys ahead of them were making and there's no noticeable drop off in production.

The key is to identify the true blue chip players who cannot be replaced without a severe drop off in on-field production and pay them literally whatever it takes to retain them. On paper, it appears those guys will be Mayfield, Garrett, Beckham and Ward.

Everyone else, even guys who are talented, can and likely will be eventually moved on from at a certain price point with a cheaper option from the draft.

I am not sure Avery is a Vernon replacement, but not sure Vernon is here past 2 more years when his 15 per is up.

Callaway is not a Landry replacement, Landry plays slot but played out of position. Because of personalities, Landry might be her long term, for sure Landry means that we wont pay Higgins big bucks and he is gone this offseason.

Agree 100% on the first 2 though, drafting 2 safeties and signing 2 starter quality safeties (although not high level) signals to me that Dorsey doesn't plan on keeping Randall long term.

I would also expect Chubb to be gone past his rookie contract and we use the draft again to replace him.
 
I am not sure Avery is a Vernon replacement, but not sure Vernon is here past 2 more years when his 15 per is up.

Callaway is not a Landry replacement, Landry plays slot but played out of position. Because of personalities, Landry might be her long term, for sure Landry means that we wont pay Higgins big bucks and he is gone this offseason.

Agree 100% on the first 2 though, drafting 2 safeties and signing 2 starter quality safeties (although not high level) signals to me that Dorsey doesn't plan on keeping Randall long term.

I would also expect Chubb to be gone past his rookie contract and we use the draft again to replace him.

The Patriot Maxim: Everybody but the QB1 is replaceable once they get too expensive.

I might add Garrett and OBJ to that list since players of that caliber in those positions are very hard to get outside drafting in the Top 5 every year.
 
Definitely not the time to think about the cap. You have a star QB on a rookie deal, press the gas.

Disagree completely.

The NFL playoffs are one and done, and injuries are always a factor. Taken together, that makes it much less likely that the "best" team going into the season actually ends up winning the Superbowl. Going all-in makes much more sense in the NBA than it does in the NFL.

The Pats have won six Super Bowls over the past 18 years with Brady because they didn't go all-in, and always watched their salary structure and cap space. That made them a top-tier team almost every year rather than trying to spike and go all-in for just a year or two before entering cap hell.
 
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OK @natedagg give me some material for this BNL thing.

BNL pays homage to some of the classic artists of their youth.
The speed of delivery is like bone thugs.
The references to various famous people is like old school Fugies.
Obviously “when I bust rhymes” paying respek to Busta Rhymes.
The first verse bars go classic rap talking shit about how awesome he is. Spitting fire verses like wasabi, which is a Japanese horseradish is a plant of the Brassicaceae family, with Japanese anime later called into the song, then classic “you can’t get on my level” shit talk, “you try to match wits” is basically saying you don’t want it with Hov. Then the haters. Gotta talk about the haters. They can’t hold this dude down, no matter how much they try “you try to hold me but I bust through.” Then finished the verse with saying his show will give you vertigo bc shit is so crazy.

The bridge shows a strained relationship, and we know thugs have relationship issues. Probably fighting bitches off w a stick at his shows. Makes sense. Jealousy, temptation, always on the road. The life of a rap superstar. It isn’t easy being the GOAT.

—————

That should get you started w some ideas. Just take bars and build themes and make it sound like this dude was a legend, showed respect to the game and what he knows, which is rap superstar living, and then just pretty much troll everyone like you do here.

Trust me this has potential and you are exactly the dude who can deliver this.
 
BNL pays homage to some of the classic artists of their youth.
The speed of delivery is like bone thugs.
The references to various famous people is like old school Fugies.
Obviously “when I bust rhymes” paying respek to Busta Rhymes.
The first verse bars go classic rap talking shit about how awesome he is. Spitting fire verses like wasabi, which is a Japanese horseradish is a plant of the Brassicaceae family, with Japanese anime later called into the song, then classic “you can’t get on my level” shit talk, “you try to match wits” is basically saying you don’t want it with Hov. Then the haters. Gotta talk about the haters. They can’t hold this dude down, no matter how much they try “you try to hold me but I bust through.” Then finished the verse with saying his show will give you vertigo bc shit is so crazy.

The bridge shows a strained relationship, and we know thugs have relationship issues. Probably fighting bitches off w a stick at his shows. Makes sense. Jealousy, temptation, always on the road. The life of a rap superstar. It isn’t easy being the GOAT.

—————

That should get you started w some ideas. Just take bars and build themes and make it sound like this dude was a legend, showed respect to the game and what he knows, which is rap superstar living, and then just pretty much troll everyone like you do here.

Trust me this has potential and you are exactly the dude who can deliver this.

@Mr. Orange also, just keep drawing comparisons to top rappers of today and yesteryear and keep saying how BNL set the stage or was better than <insert rap icon>. Then if you can, talk shit about mumble rap. Like quote some bullshit famous mumble rap lyrics and then some bars from the song and see if you can persuade people to admit the obvious: that BNL is better.
See if you can generate some heat and tell everyone that if you get enough upvotes, you will try to get these guys on hot 97 for a freestyle.
 
Disagree completely.

The NFL playoffs are one and done, and injuries are always a factor. Taken together, that it much less likely that the "best" team going into the season actually ends up winning the Superbowl. Going all-in makes much more sense in the NBA than it does in the NFL.

The Pats have won six Super Bowls over the past 18 years with Brady because they didn't go all-in, and always watched their salary structure and cap space. That made them a top-tier team almost every year rather than trying to spike and go all-in for just a year or two before entering cap hell.

Oh I agree, but Baker is on a rookie deal so press gas now and push all in for the next 2-3 seasons. Once he is a max QB definitely Pats model. Right now is Rams model. Come 2022 you watch the cap and make smart decisions. Also there probably won’t be another Patriots.
 
Great article relating to @The Human Q-Tip's point. It is fine to overspend on the margins, however, avoiding the all-in mentality actually can help sustain greatness.

https://www.patspulpit.com/2019/5/2...football-nfl-new-england-patriots-chiefs-rams

There is some pretty cool tactical stuff in the article, too, but I found the cap strategy more interesting. Basically, the Patriots realized pass rush is the most overpriced position in the NFL, and were able to draft well and save money on that position. This led to a great degree of cap flexibility over time.
Let’s start with a proposition.

In today’s National Football League, passing is king. Whether due to the various rules changes around the league in the name of player safety, or the schematic advances trickling up from the college ranks, throwing the ball is becoming critical to a team’s success or failure.

Thanks to the number of smart people thinking about and covering the game, evidence is mounting to back up this proposition. Take, for example, the lens of Expected Points Added, or EPA. Various studies from a number of different authors support the position that on a play-by-play basis, throwing the football gets a team closer to the goal of winning games than running the football does. Just recently Chase Stuart over at FootballOutsiders.com completed a quick study examining how often a passing game flips the outcome of a contest versus how often a running game flips the outcome of a contest. The summation of that study? “This would imply that pass offense is about three times as important as rushing offense.” This is a study in line with this analysis from Ben Baldwin of The Athletic Seattle, which found that teams with the better passing EPA in a game won 83% of the time, as contrasted with teams with the higher rushing EPA in a game winning just 60% of the time.

Now, Stuart does not indicate that this proposition is proven, but the point remains that evidence is leading us to the conclusion that the passing game is more important than the running game, and whether it is twice as important or three times as important - or even more - remains to be ultimately determined.

So it follows that on the defensive side of the football, containing the pass is perhaps more important than stopping the run. But that flies in the face of what has become almost canonical in the game. Think to every introductory press conference of a new defensive coordinator, or defensive-minded head coach. How quickly do you get to the phrases: “...and on defense we are going to be physical, and we are going to stop the run?” Probably before most people have settled into their seats.

But is there a way in the modern game to do both? To guard against the pass while still maintaining solid run fits and gap responsibilities up front to stop the run? Perhaps, and that brings us to Ames, Iowa.

In the past few draft cycles we saw quarterbacks from the University of Oklahoma selected first overall. During the runup to those selections, many wondered if it made sense to draft a quarterback from the Big 12 because, after all, “they don’t play defense in that conference.” However, what if the answer to defending the modern NFL offense would come from the teams that are forced to try and stop those modern offenses week in and week out?

The Iowa State Cyclones under defensive coordinator Jon Heacock have installed a defensive system that is becoming known as an “Air Raid Killer.” This system, a modified dime package, has been referred to as a 3-3-3 by Heacock:

FutureStill1.jpg

As you can see, the defensive front has three down lineman and on this example they use a 5-0-4i front. This defense usually puts the front in a 5-0-5 alignment although sometimes the ends can align inside shade on the tackles, using a 4i-0-4i alignment. Behind that are three linebackers, and then three safeties. The two outside cornerbacks are on an island on the outside receivers. Because of the alignment we see here, the linebackers on the outside widen to help against the wide slot formations. The beauty of this design is that the middle safety, called the “joker safety” by coach Cody Alexander, can be brought into the box and gives Iowa State the flexibility to run a 3-4 without making a substitution.

By now you’re probably wondering: When do we get to the Patriots?

Last year New England played over 1,000 defensive snaps. Or 1,043 to be precise. From charting data on 159 of those plays they employed a sub defensive package with three down linemen arranged in some combination of the 5-0-5 or 4i-0-4i alignments. It is not a huge percentage of their plays (15% to be exact) but the situations indicate that this was more than just a prevent defense for the Patriots, which we will see as we dive more into how New England used these packages in 2018.

The first concern one might have with running this sub package as a base defense is, of course, stopping the run. Now, this might be overblown when we again look at the numbers. Take, for example, this study by Josh Hermsmeyer from 538.com. It measures the “success rate” for running and passing plays against men in the box on non red zone plays from the 2017 season. As you can see, once you get over four men in the box, it is more successful to throw the football:

SuccessRate.jpg

Even still, this defense gives you the ability to play gap sound defense against the run, even with a lighter box. As outlined by Alexander in his piece on the Iowa State defense:



Here’s what that looks like on film:

The defenders, provided they do their job, can attack their assigned gaps and keep the defense in position to stop the run. On this example the Oklahoma Sooners run inside against what looks to be a light box, but the Cyclones are able to stop this run because of their gap discipline. Linebacker Mike Rose (#23) reads the power action up front and fills his hole, and the help arrives. So even with just four defenders in the box, they can stop the run.

Now, here’s New England doing the same last season:

This is a 2nd and goal play from New England’s Week 6 victory over the Kansas City Chiefs. The Patriots employ a 3-3-5 package on this play, even in the red zone, and they use a 4i-0-4i defensive front. You can see how the players up front attack their gaps and force Kareem Hunt(#27) to cut in the backfield, where he runs into Kyle Van Noy (#53) and Elandon Roberts (#52). Van Noy keeps his outside leverage which forces Hunt back into the hole, and Roberts fills the hole for the stop.

Or take this play from earlier in the same contest:

This is a 3rd and 1 play from New England’s Week 6 victory over the Kansas City Chiefs. They utilize a 3-2-6 defensive package, using safety Patrick Chung (#23) as a joker-type player, dropping him down into a linebacker’s alignment. Up front they use a 4i-0-3 defensive formation, and they bring Kyle Van Noy (#53) down over the tight end. Once more, provided the players up front are disciplined, they can stop the run. Here, Van Noy strings out the toss play to Tyreek Hill(#10) and then gets help from the boundary player, and the run is stopped for no gain.

Of course, the premise of the introduction to this piece is that in today’s NFL, you need to stop the pass, and utilizing a 3-3 dime package as your base defense gives you the ability to do that while still having the capability to stop the run. So let’s move to the pass defense portion of the proceedings.

Some have theorized that the NFL would be hesitant to move to such a scheme on the defensive side of the football because it might be difficult to generate consistent pass rush. After all, with just a three man front unless you are running out two tremendous defensive ends, you probably aren’t getting consistent pressure up front. But this is where Belichick’s approach to roster building comes into play. Over the past few years he has shown a reluctance to overpay for pass rushers, given how the free agency market often plays out at the position. Just this past offseason Trey Flowers commanded a five-year, $90 million dollar contract with $56 million guaranteed from the Detroit Lions. Rather than trying to outbid Detroit for his services, they moved on, acquiring Michael Bennett and drafting Chase Winovich in the third round. So if anyone would be looking to try such an approach, it would seem that Belichick would be the person to keep in mind.

But beyond the roster construction angle is how the scheme plays out on the field. It is easy to get caught up in the pure numbers and wonder if pressure can be generated with just the three down lineman and a sub package on the field, but that might be too simplistic an approach. It is more than the numbers, it is where the players on the field attack from. Teams can still get pressure if they confuse the offense and attack from various spots on the field.

In Week 5 the Patriots used sub packages with three-man fronts early and often. On this 2nd and 6 play in the first quarter New England went with their 3-2-6 package and walked Van Noy and Dont’a Hightower (#54) down into blitzing alignments before the play. However, both linebacker would drop and instead, Chung and slot cornerback Jonathan Jones (#31) would blitz from the outside. Flowers (#98) would also loop to the inside:

FutureStill2.jpg

The resulting chaos led to a sack for New England:

On this play against the Pittsburgh Steelers in Week 15, again the Patriots put five defenders on a line using a 3-2-6 sub package. This time they blitz Van Noy and Hightower, and while they do not get to Ben Roethlisberger (#7), they influence the throw with pressure and the pass is intercepted by Duron Harmon (#21):

It helps that the Patriots have Chung, who like the joker safety as described by Alexander gives New England a player with the flexibility to operate as either a safety or an in-box defender, often from a linebacker’s alignment.

Of course, the true benefit of these sub packages with extra defensive backs is that it gives the defense flexibility and options in the secondary. On this Week 6 interception of Patrick Mahomes(#15), the sub package (again with a three man front) enabled New England to bracket Travis Kelce (#87). Mahomes still forced a throw in his direction in a scramble drill situation, and it was intercepted:

Looking at the last two years of acquisitions in concert with the schematics on the field, you can see how one could believe the Patriots would be trending to using a sub package with a three man front as their base. Last year New England acquired defensive backs Jason McCourty, Duke Dawson and J.C. Jackson. This year they added Joejuan Williams in the second round and even drafted Ken Webster on Day Three.

Recently the trend was to make 4-2-5 the base defense in the NFL, given how often teams utilized 11 offensive personnel on offense. But these recent acquisitions, plus the history of how Belichick used sub packages with three man fronts, has me believing that we will see more of these 3-3-5 and 3-2-6 looks in the year ahead as New England’s base defense. Teams using this approach can still be gap sound up front to stop the run, but if stopping the pass is what teams need to do - and the numbers bear that out - this approach might make the most sense for a defense going forward. Despite some misgivings about the defensive approach in the Big 12, the future of defensive football might be found there as well.
 

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