Darius Kinnard Garland

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Player comps are a bad idea if you're arguing about how good someone is. They're okay if you're trying to describe very generally issues like fit.

Give me two current starting PG's in the NBA where you could say they're the same player.

Even if you're talking about fit, 10 years ago, people were saying that two "soft, three-point specialists" in Klay and Steph would never fit together.

I just don't see the value in player comps. They're a way to dumb-down the complexity of an individual into something that's unfair to the person while being rarely accurate or valuable.

 

[NIkeL]

I just think that when comparing players, you're not comparing quality but playstyles. There are definitely players with similar playstyles, even if not accomplished with the same quality. I guess most people just do it because it's easier to form an opinion with known quantities (actual players in the NBA) vs unknown quantities (players just out of college).

 

[Cavatt]

Just watched some highlight videos of his... Really smooth, krafty and nice range... Hope his body develops well looks like he has the same body type as Kyle Lowry...

Although they have the same size and play the same position, looks like he and Sexton plays a different way. Sexton is intensity, grit and athlethicism/quickness, while Garland plays like he plays effortless, relaxed and not dependent on athletic ability...

Just need to wait and see, how their partnership works on the court...

I am starting to come around on their ability to play with one another. If they can both get 4 assists or so this year I will be really happy. If Sexton adopts a drive and kick game and they play on opposite sides of the floor, I could see them wreaking havoc with Klove and his spacing. I hope Cedi is working on his playmaking because both Garland and Sexton can finish plays. I'd really like to have Zizic in the starting role so he can finish the pick and roll at the basket. We will see though. The floor is going to be much wider this year. I can't wait.

I really hope Garland is a better passer than he showed in College.

 

[Lee]

Give me two current starting PG's in the NBA where you could say they're the same player.

Even if you're talking about fit, 10 years ago, people were saying that two "soft, three-point specialists" in Klay and Steph would never fit together.

I just don't see the value in player comps. They're a way to dumb-down the complexity of an individual into something that's unfair to the person while being rarely accurate or valuable.

Someone like Phill14 would see the value in player comps, unfortunately your posting style is allot more like King Stannis where you just don't understand these things.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Give me two current starting PG's in the NBA where you could say they're the same player.

I say "very generally", and you ask me to give you two guys who are "the same." Well done.

No in discussing this further with you.

 

[dark2332]

Give me two current starting PG's in the NBA where you could say they're the same player.

Sexton and Garland

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I say "very generally", and you ask me to give you two guys who are "the same." Well done.

No in discussing this further with you.

I mean, you specifically said "very generally" in reference to fit, but decided not to quote that portion of my response.

Go ahead and make player comps all you like. There's a reason they're always shifting--it's because they don't stick. I'll still contend that they dumb-down the complexity of an individual into something that's unfair to the person while being rarely accurate or valuable. But it's not like I'm telling you not to have your fun. I just feel that RCF is at its best when we're digging into things that actually matter, like discussing the specific attributes of a player, rather than a general player comp.

But, understandably, that's much more difficult to digest than saying the new white guy three point shooter is like our last white guy three point shooter.

Btw, Darius Garland's player comp is obviously Merrick Garland with a slightly different first name.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I just think that when comparing players, you're not comparing quality but playstyles. There are definitely players with similar playstyles, even if not accomplished with the same quality. I guess most people just do it because it's easier to form an opinion with known quantities (actual players in the NBA) vs unknown quantities (players just out of college).

Many people use comps as a form of shorthand, not to make exact comparisons or precise projections, but just to try to convey a general concept. It can give a frame of reference for how a particular poster sees a player. They are particularly useful to convey an idea to someone who hasn't seen a guy play very much.

So, if I was trying to describe Zion's playstyle to someone who hasn't seen him play, "Barkley" is a decent frame of reference to start a discussion.

Doesn't mean I'm saying the guy is bald, though.

 

[rastamon87]

I am starting to come around on their ability to play with one another. If they can both get 4 assists or so this year I will be really happy. If Sexton adopts a drive and kick game and they play on opposite sides of the floor, I could see them wreaking havoc with Klove and his spacing. I hope Cedi is working on his playmaking because both Garland and Sexton can finish plays. I'd really like to have Zizic in the starting role so he can finish the pick and roll at the basket. We will see though. The floor is going to be much wider this year. I can't wait.

I really hope Garland is a better passer than he showed in College.

Imho, the best way for it to work is that Garland develops to be a better passer/playmaker (since he naturally have good handles) and Sexton develops into a good defender (since he is more athletic of the two)... A big reason that it worked for Thomas & Dumars is that Joe is a great defender... They should try to make Sexton film study Patrick Beverly to learn how to be a better undersized defender at that size...

 

[Cavatt]

I mean, you specifically said "very generally" in reference to fit, but decided not to quote that portion of my response.

Go ahead and make player comps all you like. There's a reason they're always shifting--it's because they don't stick. I'll still contend that they dumb-down the complexity of an individual into something that's unfair to the person while being rarely accurate or valuable. But it's not like I'm telling you not to have your fun. I just feel that RCF is at its best when we're digging into things that actually matter, like discussing the specific attributes of a player, rather than a general player comp.

But, understandably, that's much more difficult to digest than saying the new white guy three point shooter is like our last white guy three point shooter.

Btw, Darius Garland's player comp is obviously Merrick Garland with a slightly different first name.

Kyrie and Lillard. There you go. People were comparing them all year and trying to decide who was better. One killed it in the playoffs and the other guy went down in flames. Both great shooters with incredible range. Lillard is the better floor general, Kyrie is the better finisher and iso scorer. Not exactly the same, but generally they have similar game and fill as similar role.

How about Conley and Lowry? Collison and Schroeder. Van fleet reminds me a lot of Lillard, but his defense is better. Devin Harris and Elfrid Payton.

The only thing worse than player comparisons is saying that players that have a lot in common are totally distinct. Well, you forgot to mention they have different hand widths and their finger prints don't match. This guy is Baptist and this one is Presbyterian.

The whole point is really talking about the role they play, and that is also where the value in player comparisons are. If a guy can fill a similar role on the team, the comparison is valid.

 

[Lee]

Kyrie and Lillard. There you go. People were comparing them all year and trying to decide who was better. One killed it in the playoffs and the other guy went down in flames. Both great shooters with incredible range. Lillard is the better floor general, Kyrie is the better finisher and iso scorer. Not exactly the same, but generally they have similar game and fill as similar role.

How about Conley and Lowry? Collison and Schroeder. Van fleet reminds me a lot of Lillard, but his defense is better. Devin Harris and Elfrid Payton.

The only thing worse than player comparisons is saying that players that have a lot in common are totally distinct. Well, you forgot to mention they have different hand widths and their finger prints don't match. This guy is Baptist and this one is Presbyterian.

The whole point is really talking about the role they play, and that is also where the value in player comparisons are. If a guy can fill a similar role on the team, the comparison is valid.

Was going to be my example, unfortunately in the playoffs this year, one of them fell off the edge of the flat earth

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Kyrie and Lillard. There you go. People were comparing them all year and trying to decide who was better. One killed it in the playoffs and the other guy went down in flames. Both great shooters with incredible range. Lillard is the better floor general, Kyrie is the better finisher and iso scorer. Not exactly the same, but generally they have similar game and fill as similar role.

How about Conley and Lowry? Collison and Schroeder. Van fleet reminds me a lot of Lillard, but his defense is better. Devin Harris and Elfrid Payton.

The only thing worse than player comparisons is saying that players that have a lot in common are totally distinct. Well, you forgot to mention they have different hand widths and their finger prints don't match. This guy is Baptist and this one is Presbyterian.

The whole point is really talking about the role they play, and that is also where the value in player comparisons are. If a guy can fill a similar role on the team, the comparison is valid.

I'd much rather talk about the ability Lillard has to hit a three off the dribble from range beyond the three-point arc. Other players possess this talent, and it looks like Garland may have that talent as well. That talent has translated really well into increased offense because of the spacing it provides. Defenses have to pay attention to your ball handler well above the arc. That talent forces opposing defenses to commit to pick and rolls differently. Then, how does that facet of your game open up another facet, like the ability to play off a pick and roll via penetrating, passing, or any other option? Do we even think Garland will succeed off pick and rolls, or will he struggle like Sexton did last year?

Maybe it's the old curmudgeon in me, but that's the sort of dialog I want to try and steer the conversation towards. It's stimulating, informative, quality discussion. Sure, give me a player comp as a high level narrative at the beginning of the draft process, but now that we know the handful of guys we're talking about, page after page of player comps feels lazy.

 

[DOTL]

I’m pretty skeptical he can be that much heavie

I never understood why people think somebody can't put on weight. It doesn't make sense. Of course they can put on weight. Nobody stays the same weight their whole life.

He can eat more chicken, steak, potatoes.. And he can take protein powder and that will help put on muscle and strength. And if he wants more weight, he can take bulking protein powder. I'm taking a bulking protein powder and I put on 10 pounds just by taking the powder and increased in strength.

So it doesn't come down to "if he can".. Its if he wants to and what he's willing to do to put on the weight.

 

[Cavatt]

I'd much rather talk about the ability Lillard has to hit a three off the dribble from range beyond the three-point arc. Other players possess this talent, and it looks like Garland may have that talent as well. That talent has translated really well into increased offense because of the spacing it provides. Defenses have to pay attention to your ball handler well above the arc. That talent forces opposing defenses to commit to pick and rolls differently. Then, how does that facet of your game open up another facet, like the ability to play off a pick and roll via penetrating, passing, or any other option? Do we even think Garland will succeed off pick and rolls, or will he struggle like Sexton did last year?

Maybe it's the old curmudgeon in me, but that's the sort of dialog I want to try and steer the conversation towards. It's stimulating, informative, quality discussion. Sure, give me a player comp as a high level narrative at the beginning of the draft process, but now that we know the handful of guys we're talking about, page after page of player comps feels lazy.

I want to see if he actually has a passing game. Stats don't back up the "he's a great passer" thing at all. Really a lot of his passing came in transition which was also true of Sexton. I am also not sure he is going to be quite as good as Sexton at getting to the rim and thus getting the ball to the corner. Tape I have seen of Garland, he makes that pass before he gets to the paint before the defense has collapsed. Collin was having success with that pass at the very end of the year after having the defense commit to him. Garland seems way more likely to go to the step back in that situation or pull up short 2. Can he really get to anywhere on the court? I hope he can. However, if more possessions end up in a pull up 2 with no pass, that will be a wasted opportunity and I would rather have Sexton go to the rim or shoot from 3.

I totally agree on the off the dribble long 3. If he can consistently hit that shot behind the pick like Lillard/Curry and some of the other best 3 pt shooters can, then that wreaks havoc on defense. If Sexton is on the other wing or in the corner waiting for a spot up in that situation with Kevin in the corner or on the wing, that also means our floor is going to be very spread. I hope Garland can take it in and finish because of that too.

 

[Cavatt]

I never understood why people think somebody can't put on weight. It doesn't make sense. Of course they can put on weight. Nobody stays the same weight their whole life.

He can eat more chicken, steak, potatoes.. And he can take protein powder and that will help put on muscle and strength. And if he wants more weight, he can take bulking protein powder. I'm taking a bulking protein powder and I put on 10 pounds just by taking the powder and increased in strength.

So it doesn't come down to "if he can".. Its if he wants to and what he's willing to do to put on the weight.

Mr Rogers was 143 lbs from high school until he died.