2019 Series #3 | Indians vs. Blue Jays | April 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th

[Derek]

I get the concerns with Kipnis. His production has fallen off the past 2 years, he's another year older, he's missed the first two weeks of the season, etc.

But after a painful first 2 months, he was a solid bat in the lineup. June 1 - Sept 30 he slashed .251 / .336 / .445 with 15 homers

Again, I get the concerns but he is better than Brad Miller at literally everything.

Exactly, at the very least, Kipnis isn't a hole in the lineup. He'll give us something in the realm of league average production, if not more.

 

[BimboColesHair]

There is two ways to look at it.

One our lineup is awful, the 6-9 hitter aren't even major league hitters. This is a fact, 6-9 is really really really bad.

Or, and this might sound crazy, we are 6-3 with insanely good starting pitching (which is the biggest thing in winning a World Series) and we have 3 all star level players including a MVP candidate coming back in a month to replace those awful hitters. Further we have Zimmer, Salazar and others who might come back to add further depth. Then we have proven to make atleast 2 big acquisitions every year to get ready for the playoffs.

I think it has been crazy how many minor injuries we have already, but that stuff happens. We can whine Lindor has 2 minor injuries, or see he has never had an injury history and if you take time to rehab, sprained ankles are not chronic issues typically. This start of the year is very encouraging.

I expected to struggle for about a month because of the lineup. And yes the lineup has been as bad as I thought, but fuck is our starting pitching good and its so good we are 3 games above .500 9 games into the year. Now that is crazy considering what is coming back soon that is on our DL.

I mean did anyone even the most positive people expect to be on a 108 win pace with this lineup before 3 of our best hitters return to replace the AA players there now? How is that not encouraging?

What's even crazier about their pitching staff is that their 2 best starters for the last half decade have easily been the worst starters they've trotted out, statistically. And that won't last for Kluber and Carrasco. I'm going to say it again, there is a legit chance the Indians trot out the best rotation in baseball history in 2019.

Add Lindor, Kipnis, and if you get literally anything positive from Cargo, on top of Kluber and Carrasco coming back to their typical averages...

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Whatever man. I said sorry for my vague take. I’ll be more clear next time. What more can I do for you? I dont like arguing with people I generally enjoy.

We're good.

But what more can you do? Honestly, just try not to spew bullshit in the future. It's exhausting having to respond to it.

Treat b00bie, bimbo and Stark with a bit more respect. They're some of the most knowledgeable baseball fans you'll find. They're really the only reason I've stuck around RCF when I'm no longer interested in the Cavs.

And figure out where the Detroit series thread is so we can all move on.

 

[Chris]

We're good.

But what more can you do? Honestly, just try not to spew bullshit in the future. It's exhausting having to respond to it.

Treat b00bie, bimbo and Stark with a bit more respect. They're some of the most knowledgeable baseball fans you'll find. They're really the only reason I've stuck around RCF when I'm no longer interested in the Cavs.

And figure out where the Detroit series thread is so we can all move on.

I’m on great terms with Stark and Bimbo. Like what? I’m not putting people on a pedestal on an Internet forum and giving them free reign to insult people just because they know baseball.

You should have just ended after the first sentence. We clearly aren’t “good.” But we can move on regardless. See you in the Detroit thread.

Edited because sick of arguing.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I’m on great terms with Stark and Bimbo. Like what? I’m not putting people on a pedestal on an Internet forum, this is ridiculous. Excusing some of the shit b00bie says because he is our baseball overlord we should bow down to? Like what?

Maybe that is the disconnect. Ya’ll will find any reason to rationalize the condescending bullshit you spew, while lecturing others for replying to it in abrasive fashion. That...isn’t gonna fly with most people.

You should have just ended after the first sentence. We clearly aren’t “good.”

Yeah, we're good man.

And there has to be some debate and dissenting opinions in here, can't all be sunshine and rainbows. Not throughout 162+ games.

My issue will always be the arguments made using nothing but feelings, outdated takes, or things said in a reactionary nature. Those don't really work with baseball like they can with basketball or football.

I'll never disagree with someone thinking the team has to or can get better. I know the Indians themselves would agree with that.

 

[Chris]

Yeah, we're good man.

And there has to be some debate and dissenting opinions in here, can't all be sunshine and rainbows. Not throughout 162+ games.

My issue will always be the arguments made using nothing but feelings, outdated takes, or things said in a reactionary nature. Those don't really work with baseball like they can with basketball or football.

I'll never disagree with someone thinking the team has to or can get better. I know the Indians themselves would agree with that.

True stuff. I’m glad we’re good. I legit have no gripe with anyone here. Even b00bs. Just hate the way he expresses sometimes. I wasn’t even trying to shit on the Indians. Frankly, I treat this forum as shooting the shit over pizza and beer as opposed to writing scholarly editorials most of the time. Apologies if some people have disdain for that. This is the only place here that that seems to cause an issue so I’ll probably just read for the most part going forward. Not a big deal.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I understand they won't do it because the Indians are traditionally a little slow to make reaction moves, but Greg Allen can't be long for this team.

But that puts the Indians in a tough position if Allen goes down and CarGo comes up. Then we are looking at Bauers, CarGo, Luplow, and Naquin as our outfielders? That's...not going to cut it. I'm hoping they give Mercado a chance soon, he looked like a major league hitter in spring and has the pedigree to maybe be an every day hitter.

 

[Chris]

I’ll take some Cargo.

 

[bushwick_bill]

I understand they won't do it because the Indians are traditionally a little slow to make reaction moves, but Greg Allen can't be long for this team.

But that puts the Indians in a tough position if Allen goes down and CarGo comes up. Then we are looking at Bauers, CarGo, Luplow, and Naquin as our outfielders? That's...not going to cut it. I'm hoping they give Mercado a chance soon, he looked like a major league hitter in spring and has the pedigree to maybe be an every day hitter.

The Indians absolutely will make an addition to their OF before the deadline.

 

[Derek]

I’ll take some Cargo.

I'm sure I'm considered one of the more optimistic posters on the board, and even I don't expect much out of CarGo (same goes for Hanley).

I expect them both off the roster by August.

 

[Chris]

I'm sure I'm considered one of the more optimistic posters on the board, and even I don't expect much out of CarGo (same goes for Hanley).

I expect them both off the roster by August.

Damn. Really? Knew he’d fallen off just wasn’t sure how much. I guess that makes sense though if he’s in the minors atm.

 

[Marcus]

Complaining about the offense when Stamets is going to turn into Lindor, one of Miller/Moroff is going to turn into Kipnis and one of Naquin/Allen/Luplow is going to turn into Gonzalez within the next couple of weeks is kind of silly.

Yes, the offense is poor right now, but they have at least three guys playing every day right now who most certainly won't even be on the team in the next few weeks. Maybe more than three if guys like Chang, Mercado or Zimmer force their way into the picture.

Looking beyond the offense, you have Clippard who is likely going to replace someone in the pen eventually too, whether it's Ramirez, Otero or Edwards, and that should be an upgrade.

Not to mention the Indians have been buyers at the deadline each of the last three years, bringing on Hand, Cimber, Donaldson in 2018, Smith and Bruce in 2017, Miller and Guyer in 2016.

I just wouldn't stress how the roster looks right now when several changes are clearly on the horizon and many others could be as well.

Just to further add on to this, they’re off to their best start in eight years, including their best start ever under Francona. This team starts off slow every single year.

The offense is doing literally just enough to support the stellar pitching, and right now, that’s pretty much all they need to do before they get a talent infusion in the coming weeks with the arrivals of Lindor/Kipnis/CarGo.

It was a little bit underwhelming to see them do very little in the offseason, but I have no doubt there are going to be other roster changes from now until the postseason, either via trade, free agency, or call ups.

 

[Derek]

Damn. Really? Knew he’d fallen off just wasn’t sure how much. I guess that makes sense though if he’s in the minors atm.

I'm not going to post his home/away numbers because it's not entirely fair to look at those splits since there's usually a drop off for anybody when they go play on the road.

However, despite playing at Coors, he's posted a below average wRC+ in each of the past two years, and has only been worth a combined 1.6 fWAR.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

The Indians absolutely will make an addition to their OF before the deadline.

Oh, I agree, but they can only go so hard to a point. Even then, I'm not sure I want them to blow up the farm just so they can remedy the outfield. Some of the improvement must come from within the organization.

I'd be perfectly fine with any one of Luplow/Bauers/Naquin with Mercado, CarGo (if he produces) and trade guy. But I seriously doubt the Indians would do that any time soon.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

There is two ways to look at it.

One our lineup is awful, the 6-9 hitter aren't even major league hitters. This is a fact, 6-9 is really really really bad.

Or, and this might sound crazy, we are 6-3 with insanely good starting pitching (which is the biggest thing in winning a World Series) and we have 3 all star level players including a MVP candidate coming back in a month to replace those awful hitters. Further we have Zimmer, Salazar and others who might come back to add further depth. Then we have proven to make atleast 2 big acquisitions every year to get ready for the playoffs.

I think it has been crazy how many minor injuries we have already, but that stuff happens. We can whine Lindor has 2 minor injuries, or see he has never had an injury history and if you take time to rehab, sprained ankles are not chronic issues typically. This start of the year is very encouraging.

I expected to struggle for about a month because of the lineup. And yes the lineup has been as bad as I thought, but fuck is our starting pitching good and its so good we are 3 games above .500 9 games into the year. Now that is crazy considering what is coming back soon that is on our DL.

I mean did anyone even the most positive people expect to be on a 108 win pace with this lineup before 3 of our best hitters return to replace the AA players there now? How is that not encouraging?

I agree with a lot of your points, but I think you’re overstating a few things

On pace after 9 games means essentially nothing. Especially when we played a bunch of meme teams (I am NOT complaining about beating bad teams, just stating that it skews any pace argument)

calling CarGo and Kipnis all star level players is just way overstating the help we have on the way. Maybe Kipnis if he plays at his ceiling, but CarGo signed a minor league contract. Current all star talents don’t sign minor league contracts

The starting pitching is historically good and that’s enough to make us a contender IMO, but a lot of us are nervous about Stinky P returning to form, and truthfully if he isn’t playing at an all star level it’s hard to imagine this offense fully healthy being as good as prior years. I still have big time question marks about the BP too