• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

#25: ATH, Jabrill Peppers

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Possibly. Players have to have the motivation and drive to become better also. Schobert has really improved; I attribute that to good guidance as well as putting in the time/individual work.
 
Shouldn't Greggg get some credit for turning a lot of those guys into top talents? I'm not a huge fan, regardless, but some of it should be on him, right?

Seems like most of the guys that have succeeded here have been the ones who have been able to step in on day one and contribute. It also seems like basically every player that has required any serious level of development has failed here.

That sure sounds like the mark of a shit coaching staff.
 
Seems like most of the guys that have succeeded here have been the ones who have been able to step in on day one and contribute. It also seems like basically every player that has required any serious level of development has failed here.

That sure sounds like the mark of a shit coaching staff.

Among those who clearly improved since joining the Browns since Williams took over:

Schobert due to coverage skills, Coley due to hand use and functional strength, Kindred due to tackling angles, Terrance Mitchell due to scheme, and Damarious Randall due to shift back to free safety. Saying his scheme has no influence on rookies starting out successful lacks evidence but I'm willing to play along with the parameters you guys put forth.

Frankly I see a lot of people who decided they hate Gregg Williams last season and are searching for ways to hold onto that opinion. That's for fans to unpack. The schemes he used specifically on the road against the Saints and at home against the Ravens were aggressive as well as successful. I felt his one poor game from a strategic point of view was the Raiders game. Trying to argue away success is weird, but also very Browns.
 
Among those who clearly improved since joining the Browns since Williams took over:

Schobert due to coverage skills, Coley due to hand use and functional strength, Kindred due to tackling angles, Terrance Mitchell due to scheme, and Damarious Randall due to shift back to free safety. Saying his scheme has no influence on rookies starting out successful lacks evidence but I'm willing to play along with the parameters you guys put forth.

Frankly I see a lot of people who decided they hate Gregg Williams last season and are searching for ways to hold onto that opinion. That's for fans to unpack. The schemes he used specifically on the road against the Saints and at home against the Ravens were aggressive as well as successful. I felt his one poor game from a strategic point of view was the Raiders game. Trying to argue away success is weird, but also very Browns.
Ogunjobi is the biggest one missing as well. Anyone arguing he didn't need development is asinine. Peppers has obviously improved as well.
 
Among those who clearly improved since joining the Browns since Williams took over:

Schobert due to coverage skills, Coley due to hand use and functional strength, Kindred due to tackling angles, Terrance Mitchell due to scheme, and Damarious Randall due to shift back to free safety. Saying his scheme has no influence on rookies starting out successful lacks evidence but I'm willing to play along with the parameters you guys put forth.

Frankly I see a lot of people who decided they hate Gregg Williams last season and are searching for ways to hold onto that opinion. That's for fans to unpack. The schemes he used specifically on the road against the Saints and at home against the Ravens were aggressive as well as successful. I felt his one poor game from a strategic point of view was the Raiders game. Trying to argue away success is weird, but also very Browns.

I think the issue is that a lot of us don't see the success we're having as particularly sustainable. The defense has been buoyed by an absurdly unsustainable turnover rate, and the offense has proven time and time again that they are content to play not to lose. Once that turnover rate comes back down to earth, we're going to be in trouble.

I mean, we've already tied one game we should have won and outright lost another, along with the refs screwing us over in an Oakland game we would have won had our coaching staff not been too scared to go for it on fourth and inches. And that's with the unsustainable turnover rate. This team would probably be, at worst, 4-1 right now with a competent staff.
 
Last edited:
I think the issue is that a lot of us don't see the success we're having as particularly sustainable. The defense has been buoyed by an absurdly unsustainable turnover rate, and the offense has proven time and time again that they are content to play not to lose. Once that turnover rate comes back down to earth, we're going to be in trouble.

I mean, we've already tied one game we should have won and outright lost another, along with the refs screwing us over in an Oakland game we would have won had our coaching staff not been too scared to go for it on fourth and inches. And that's with the unsustainable turnover rate. This team would probably be, at worst, 4-1 right now with a competent staff.

Fair enough on the sustainability aspect. I agree.
But the "competent staff" remark should be made towards Hue and or Amos. The D at most only hurt us in 1 game (OAK). In the rest of the games we've held teams WAY below their averages.

I don't think it's sustainable and I'd like to bring in a new HC after the year with a new DC of his choice, but I also think our D has been pretty great this year (even if it can't hang on year over year this way).
 
Trying to argue away success is weird, but also very Browns.

I don't think anyone is unhappy at all that the Browns are successful which is what you seem to be implying.

I just think there are some on this board who can recognize that there are clear ways to determine if current success/failure is based more on skill or based more on random chance/luck.

It's extremely likely that the Browns' turnover rate does not continue at it's current rate (3.0 per game) over the final 11 games of this season. If they stop turning teams over on 25% of their opponent's possessions, they're very likely going to give up more yards which will lead to more points.

Doesn't mean we're unhappy or not "enjoying the ride" by any means.
 
Fair enough on the sustainability aspect. I agree.
But the "competent staff" remark should be made towards Hue and or Amos. The D at most only hurt us in 1 game (OAK). In the rest of the games we've held teams WAY below their averages.

I don't think it's sustainable and I'd like to bring in a new HC after the year with a new DC of his choice, but I also think our D has been pretty great this year (even if it can't hang on year over year this way).

I mean, Gregg has done all right, but at the end of the day I don't think his scheme is anything special. I imagine a lot of you will feel differently about him by the end of the year once the turnover rate comes back down to earth, which in turn will expose the issues with his system.
 
Among those who clearly improved since joining the Browns since Williams took over:

Schobert due to coverage skills, Coley due to hand use and functional strength, Kindred due to tackling angles, Terrance Mitchell due to scheme, and Damarious Randall due to shift back to free safety. Saying his scheme has no influence on rookies starting out successful lacks evidence but I'm willing to play along with the parameters you guys put forth.

Frankly I see a lot of people who decided they hate Gregg Williams last season and are searching for ways to hold onto that opinion. That's for fans to unpack. The schemes he used specifically on the road against the Saints and at home against the Ravens were aggressive as well as successful. I felt his one poor game from a strategic point of view was the Raiders game. Trying to argue away success is weird, but also very Browns.

Agreed completely.

I was very indifferent on Williams last year because I felt he wasn't given a complete squad. He was playing Peppers out of position, but had to. He didn't have any depth at LB because of injuries, one corner that could cover and a DL that couldn't get pressure with just 4. He had some great defenses in NOLA, so I know he can coach defense.

Now those issues have been solved and our defense looks great. The only thing I can truly blame Williams for last year was not trying other options at FS since Peppers was so clearly uncomfortable. Everything else he had to deal with the hand he was dealt.

Now as for Hue's I constantly see him make easy coaching errors from not going for it on 4th to bad clock management. The team is greatly improved, but I am not sure how much Hue has to do with it. The coordinators and Dorsey seem solid. That said, if we finish with 8 or 9 wins, I am willing to give the whole staff another year. Belichick won 6, 6 then 7 games his first 3 years before winning 11 in his 4th. Every new coach needs a couple of years to put it together, I just wish he didn't make so many dumb mistakes in year 3.
 
That said, if we finish with 8 or 9 wins, I am willing to give the whole staff another year.

Personally, I think we should all look at the Packers as a cautionary tale of what happens when you're willing to commit long-term to a mediocre coach. That franchise has basically wasted the entire prime of one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game by keeping Mike McCarthy around.

I don't want to see us waste the next few years of Baker's rookie contract hoping that Hue's ineptitude will somehow correct itself.
 
I mean, Gregg has done all right, but at the end of the day I don't think his scheme is anything special. I imagine a lot of you will feel differently about him by the end of the year once the turnover rate comes back down to earth, which in turn will expose the issues with his system.

I don't think we have a top 5 defense once the turnovers come back down, but we have a good defense right now. We are 13th in the league in 3 and out percentage which is pretty good and not helped at all by turnovers. We are number 1 in plays a drive and 3rd in yardage per a drive, but turnovers help those stats. I think when all put together we have a top 10 defense, and by next year with a few additions and the young players becoming more experienced, we will have a top 5 defense.

I also see the offense having a huge improvement next year with another year under Baker and an added wr weapon and maybe lineman.

This team is looking up for sure.
 
Personally, I think we should all look at the Packers as a cautionary tale of what happens when you're willing to commit long-term to a mediocre coach. That franchise has basically wasted the entire prime of one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game by keeping Mike McCarthy around.

I don't want to see us waste the next few years of Baker's rookie contract hoping that Hue's ineptitude will somehow correct itself.

The issue is you don't fire a coach with as big of an improvement that we will make.

Our only true hope is hue dies something stupid to get himself fired and they let Haley take over as HC and keep him. I actually like both of our coordinators, although I agree Hue is questionable.
 
The issue is you don't fire a coach with as big of an improvement that we will make.

Our only true hope is hue dies something stupid to get himself fired and they let Haley take over as HC and keep him. I actually like both of our coordinators, although I agree Hue is questionable.

I honestly don't think we're going to win enough games this year to save Hue's job. We've already lost two games and tied one that we should have won, and the offense has largely been content to be conservative with leads and play not to lose. Once the turnover rate evens out, that alone will probably cost us some games.
 
I honestly don't think we're going to win enough games this year to save Hue's job. We've already lost two games and tied one that we should have won, and the offense has largely been content to be conservative with leads and play not to lose. Once the turnover rate evens out, that alone will probably cost us some games.

I just hope we don't find ourselves in a bad position with no good coaches out there. I don't like Hue, but I like our coordinators. That said, I have to trust Dorsey some, he has made allot of good decisions since taking over which makes the Chad Thomas pick even more curious.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-13: "Backup Bash Brothers"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:11: "Clipping Bucks."
Top