Shouldn't Greggg get some credit for turning a lot of those guys into top talents? I'm not a huge fan, regardless, but some of it should be on him, right?
Like?t also seems like basically every player that has required any serious level of development has failed here.
Seems like most of the guys that have succeeded here have been the ones who have been able to step in on day one and contribute. It also seems like basically every player that has required any serious level of development has failed here.
That sure sounds like the mark of a shit coaching staff.
Ogunjobi is the biggest one missing as well. Anyone arguing he didn't need development is asinine. Peppers has obviously improved as well.Among those who clearly improved since joining the Browns since Williams took over:
Schobert due to coverage skills, Coley due to hand use and functional strength, Kindred due to tackling angles, Terrance Mitchell due to scheme, and Damarious Randall due to shift back to free safety. Saying his scheme has no influence on rookies starting out successful lacks evidence but I'm willing to play along with the parameters you guys put forth.
Frankly I see a lot of people who decided they hate Gregg Williams last season and are searching for ways to hold onto that opinion. That's for fans to unpack. The schemes he used specifically on the road against the Saints and at home against the Ravens were aggressive as well as successful. I felt his one poor game from a strategic point of view was the Raiders game. Trying to argue away success is weird, but also very Browns.
Among those who clearly improved since joining the Browns since Williams took over:
Schobert due to coverage skills, Coley due to hand use and functional strength, Kindred due to tackling angles, Terrance Mitchell due to scheme, and Damarious Randall due to shift back to free safety. Saying his scheme has no influence on rookies starting out successful lacks evidence but I'm willing to play along with the parameters you guys put forth.
Frankly I see a lot of people who decided they hate Gregg Williams last season and are searching for ways to hold onto that opinion. That's for fans to unpack. The schemes he used specifically on the road against the Saints and at home against the Ravens were aggressive as well as successful. I felt his one poor game from a strategic point of view was the Raiders game. Trying to argue away success is weird, but also very Browns.
I think the issue is that a lot of us don't see the success we're having as particularly sustainable. The defense has been buoyed by an absurdly unsustainable turnover rate, and the offense has proven time and time again that they are content to play not to lose. Once that turnover rate comes back down to earth, we're going to be in trouble.
I mean, we've already tied one game we should have won and outright lost another, along with the refs screwing us over in an Oakland game we would have won had our coaching staff not been too scared to go for it on fourth and inches. And that's with the unsustainable turnover rate. This team would probably be, at worst, 4-1 right now with a competent staff.
Trying to argue away success is weird, but also very Browns.
Fair enough on the sustainability aspect. I agree.
But the "competent staff" remark should be made towards Hue and or Amos. The D at most only hurt us in 1 game (OAK). In the rest of the games we've held teams WAY below their averages.
I don't think it's sustainable and I'd like to bring in a new HC after the year with a new DC of his choice, but I also think our D has been pretty great this year (even if it can't hang on year over year this way).
Among those who clearly improved since joining the Browns since Williams took over:
Schobert due to coverage skills, Coley due to hand use and functional strength, Kindred due to tackling angles, Terrance Mitchell due to scheme, and Damarious Randall due to shift back to free safety. Saying his scheme has no influence on rookies starting out successful lacks evidence but I'm willing to play along with the parameters you guys put forth.
Frankly I see a lot of people who decided they hate Gregg Williams last season and are searching for ways to hold onto that opinion. That's for fans to unpack. The schemes he used specifically on the road against the Saints and at home against the Ravens were aggressive as well as successful. I felt his one poor game from a strategic point of view was the Raiders game. Trying to argue away success is weird, but also very Browns.
That said, if we finish with 8 or 9 wins, I am willing to give the whole staff another year.
I mean, Gregg has done all right, but at the end of the day I don't think his scheme is anything special. I imagine a lot of you will feel differently about him by the end of the year once the turnover rate comes back down to earth, which in turn will expose the issues with his system.
Personally, I think we should all look at the Packers as a cautionary tale of what happens when you're willing to commit long-term to a mediocre coach. That franchise has basically wasted the entire prime of one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game by keeping Mike McCarthy around.
I don't want to see us waste the next few years of Baker's rookie contract hoping that Hue's ineptitude will somehow correct itself.
The issue is you don't fire a coach with as big of an improvement that we will make.
Our only true hope is hue dies something stupid to get himself fired and they let Haley take over as HC and keep him. I actually like both of our coordinators, although I agree Hue is questionable.
I honestly don't think we're going to win enough games this year to save Hue's job. We've already lost two games and tied one that we should have won, and the offense has largely been content to be conservative with leads and play not to lose. Once the turnover rate evens out, that alone will probably cost us some games.