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Andrew Wiggins

Discussion in 'Around The NBA' started by Stark, Jun 26, 2014.

  1. catfish

    catfish Sixth Man

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  2. jking948

    jking948 All-Star

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    Never let context get in the way of counting stats. You definitely just proved Joe Harris is better than Wiggins. Great job.
     
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  3. Rich

    Rich Saucin'

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    So, just to be clear, if you were running a team you'd trade Andrew Wiggins for Joe Harris?

    And I guess you must think, since all you've managed to post is an RPM rating, that Giannis is better than LeBron?

    Honestly advanced statistics were once useful but it's ruining basketball discussion. I'm starting to shift totally to the other side and become one of those old, Get Off My Lawn types when it comes to the stat nerds. Kevin Pelton is awful, and people on this forum (and others) are just taking it to a brand new levevl.
     
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  4. TyGuy

    TyGuy With the Left hand!

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    @Rich I think Giannis has leapfrogged this season into the top 10 and is easily my pick for MIP. The cavs missed out on some damn good players that were within their reach during the tank years.
     
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  5. catfish

    catfish Sixth Man

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    Think if I was starting a team today Giannis would be my first pick. Cant believe that we didnt get him or the Stifle Tower. We did everything wrong in the rebuild except drafting Kyrie (even he isnt the best player in his draft class) but still somehow succeeded when James got homesick.

    If I was running a team and I had Wiggins I would dangle him for a pick. Dont think he is a winning player. If the Nets came I agree there would have be a sweetener. I wouldn't do the Harris Wiggins deal straight up.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  6. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

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    :chuckle:

    RPM strikes again!
     
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  7. Rich

    Rich Saucin'

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    Nononono.

    You've now used an RPM rating, twice, to tell me Joe Harris is better than Wiggins.

    So I'll ask it again, do you think Giannis, right now, is better than LeBron James. Because RPM has him rated higher.
     
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  8. Rich

    Rich Saucin'

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    And here's the thing, I think I'm reasonably down on Wiggins. I had him 3rd in that draft, behind Parker and Embiid, and I'd say most people, not all, but most, would take those two ahead of him now if they could redraft. I still thought he'd be better than he is right now, though.

    That said, it's a 21 year old scoring 21 points a game on 45% shooting. To act like he still doesn't have a world of potential, and teams who are going to tear it down still wouldn't love to get him on his rookie contract..it's crazy to me.

    No, I don't think he has surefire superstar written all over him anymore, but I think you'd be somewhat hard pressed to get a better asset than him if your the Bulls.
     
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  9. godfather

    godfather Hall-of-Famer

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    I'm not a big fan of Wiggins, but gimme a break, Joe Freakin' Harris?

    RPM has some meaning, but it's not flawless. You can't use that metric and automatically make statements so and so is better.

    And Wiggins is not a bust. Not at all. He's not perfect, and I am mostly disappointed that he's not yet turned into the defender I felt he could be. But, I don't think he won't turn it around either necessarily.

    Maybe his body still needs to develop some. I don't know. I don't watch much of the Timberwolves.

    Some were even suggesting the T-Wolves should trade him. No. That's dumb. He's 21. Why the hell would you do that?

    I think the T-Wolves need to start adding the right pieces though. They got talent, but that roster just doesn't all fit together. They need shooters. They need guys that can defend. Most of all they need SOME veteran leadership. Guys that can actually player, not guys like KG that were clearly at the end of their rope.

    When I look at their roster, it just doesn't completely fit.
     
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  10. jking948

    jking948 All-Star

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    Great post, totally agree, two quick points:

    1) I think those advocating trading are only suggesting that if it means Minnesota can get a superstar piece (ala Jimmy Butler). They shouldn't just sell Wiggins to the highest bidder if the highest bid is, to use our Cleveland legend, Jae Crowder.

    2) RPM is a great stat to show a player's impact and potential future impact given static conditions on his team. It does not serve as a good tool to compare players. This is what Hollinger has talked about before on The Ringer's NBA podcast. The stat is great when it is used in the right way, but stuff like RPM, PER, VORP, etc. aren't used by fans/writers/etc. the right way, but the dilemma is using it to compare two different players, on two different teams, who have two different roles go against the purpose of the stat.
     
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  11. godfather

    godfather Hall-of-Famer

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    Oh I'd trade him for Butler. Some have suggest trading him for lottery picks, and starting over. That's just pointless. Why would anyone do that? Lottery picks aren't guaranteed to be hits, and the odds of getting someone as talented as Wiggins isn't very high either.

    But you could parlay Wiggins into an upgrade, yeah, I'd do it. Jimmy Butler is an upgrade. No questions asked.
     
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  12. jking948

    jking948 All-Star

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    Yeah, anyone arguing to trade Wiggins for picks misses his value. At worst, I see Wiggins becoming a prime-Iguoudala type player. Is that a player that can win you a championship or take you to the playoffs by himself? Hell naw. But, KAT does look like that type of talent. So I think you keep Wiggins until a big name gets offered or until it gets time to potentially pay him too large of a contract.

    But, overall, he has been disappointing to me. I definitely had him as a generational talent (I did with Parker and Embiid, too, though).
     
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  13. godfather

    godfather Hall-of-Famer

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    Just surprising he's been Kyrie bad defensively thus far. I don't think anyone predicted that. And he definitely doesn't come close to having Kyrie's skillset offensively.

    Which is why you can live with Kyrie. Wiggins? He's got to get better defensively. Has to. Otherwise, he will be a pretty big disappointment IMO.
     
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  14. King Stannis

    King Stannis The One True King

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    Joe Harris is far better than Wiggins.

















    At growing a sweet pornstache.
     
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  15. Stark

    Stark Best in the Land

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    Andrew Wiggins tonight versus Washington:

    + 41 points; 16-30 FG; 8-10 FT
    - 1 rebound
    - 2 assists
    - Torched by Otto Porter/Brad Beal down the stretch while Washington won the game

    I'm actually kind of amazed by how one-dimensional Wiggins is in year three. I don't watch him a ton, and I know he's only 21, but when I watched tonight, all I saw was a dude that cared about scoring and nothing else. One board in 39 minutes from a guy that's around the basket and a leaping machine? Horrible defense, way worse than I ever thought he'd be capable of at this level.

    Is he lazy? Once again, I don't watch a ton, but if it's not scoring, Wiggins doesn't seem to be interested in doing it.
     

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