Any Psychologists/Psychiatrists? Thinking of a Career Change

[Sebastian]

Tough call. You mentioned before that you had Veteran funding, in which case that's an easy call... go to the 4 year college. I guess if you crush the MCAT, they could convince themselves you're equal to anyone else who went to the 4 year school. But as you've seen with some folks , it's so competitive, there may be 10 other people like you who crush the MCAT but did the 4 year school. Plus, could you really crush the MCATs if you studied the sciences at the community colleges versus a big time 4 year school? Possible, but I'd say it's like the NFL drafting the receiver from Akron with a 4.3 40 instead of the OSU guy with the 4.6 40. Sure, it happens, but it's pretty rare, rare enough to be newsworthy.

On the plus side, you'd be unique as a polysci major with the military experience who did great in the sciences also, which is rare, and you'd be competing against a smaller pool. In my year, the majors who had the highest acceptance rate were English majors. I have never met a single one of them in real life; most people I know majored in one of the sciences, but again, if you can do great in English and still do great in the sciences, thats pretty unique, and you'd be competing against other English majors, if which there are few. I had a classmate at Northwestern who majored in music, piano performance specifically. She also killed all the premed classes, the MCATs, and was on the varsity tennis team. I studied with her a few times, and she was just a helluva a lot smarter than I was. It was very obvious. She went to NU medical school (chosen over me) and is now a cardiothoracic surgeon. But then she killed her sciences at Northwestern, alongside all the other science geeks.

So, I'd say yes, they could potentially hold it against you. When I speak to the medical students who rotate through with us, they're all unbelievably impressive. Great at everything, great grades and test scores, plus went to Africa to feed babies and volunteer in a medical community, blah blah blah. It makes you want to just strangle them. I did have one med student in the last few years who took a few years to get a Master's in a health science before getting in. But she was a minority student, and fair or not, there are fewer minorities to compete with. And that's another controversial topic that could be a whole thread unto itself.

You'd be unique because of your military experience and polysci major, as well. But again, you'd be leaving a bit of a hole in your education if you did the community college thing. Not a mortal wound, by any means, but it'd be a question mark for sure.

Yea, unfortunately, Post-9/11 GI Bill will cover you for four years or eight semesters. So using three semesters on undergrad stuff would leave me on the hook for three very expensive semesters of med school.

So, hmmm.

 

[jvlgato]

Ugh. That sucks.

Could be wrong, but it seems to me there were many military options for med school. I remember getting many offers, including being streamlined to officer status. If you're willing to pay it back with time spent as a military doctor, which it seemed like you might be interested in doing, in the first place.

Or are you fully retired from the military already?

There's also National Health Service Corp/Scholar, but then you have to pay back time in underserved jobs that no one else wants. My wife did that.

And by the way, you are doing a beautiful job of illustrating the doctors' dilemma ... big time expensive education, no guarantees, and once you're in medical school and residency, there's no looking back, you're in way too deep! Then, despite having good intentions at the outset, when the time comes to consider your specialty at the end of med school, and you're in six figure debt, all of a sudden, those salary differences look a lot bigger ... do you still really want to be a psychiatrist, one of the lowest paying specialties, even though it's a really nice salary? Or do you want to make 50%+ more and go into something else, which you definitely could do at that point?

And there'd be nothing wrong with that ... you'd still be helping people, just making more money. Though by then, you'll have a pretty good idea that you really like or don't like this or that specialty.

But the good thing is, if you get into medical school, almost everyone does survive to the end, and you are pretty much guaranteed a well paying job. The only problem people get into sometimes is that they figure out they don't want to be a doctor, after all, after getting into that six figure debt. Then you're screwed. Almost happened to me, until I found psychiatry. As my Dad pointed out, when he was talking me out of quitting a little more than half way through med school, there are so many different things you can do as a doctor, that it is VERY likely that you'll find SOMETHING!

Well hey, tough decision ... you've got some thinking to do. 'Hmm', indeed. Good luck! Keep in touch!

 

[Sebastian]

Ugh. That sucks.

Could be wrong, but it seems to me there were many military options for med school. I remember getting many offers, including being streamlined to officer status. If you're willing to pay it back with time spent as a military doctor, which it seemed like you might be interested in doing, in the first place.

Or are you fully retired from the military already?

There's also National Health Service Corp/Scholar, but then you have to pay back time in underserved jobs that no one else wants. My wife did that.

And by the way, you are doing a beautiful job of illustrating the doctors' dilemma ... big time expensive education, no guarantees, and once you're in medical school and residency, there's no looking back, you're in way too deep! Then, despite having good intentions at the outset, when the time comes to consider your specialty at the end of med school, and you're in six figure debt, all of a sudden, those salary differences look a lot bigger ... do you still really want to be a psychiatrist, one of the lowest paying specialties, even though it's a really nice salary? Or do you want to make 50%+ more and go into something else, which you definitely could do at that point?

And there'd be nothing wrong with that ... you'd still be helping people, just making more money. Though by then, you'll have a pretty good idea that you really like or don't like this or that specialty.

But the good thing is, if you get into medical school, almost everyone does survive to the end, and you are pretty much guaranteed a well paying job. The only problem people get into sometimes is that they figure out they don't want to be a doctor, after all, after getting into that six figure debt. Then you're screwed. Almost happened to me, until I found psychiatry. As my Dad pointed out, when he was talking me out of quitting a little more than half way through med school, there are so many different things you can do as a doctor, that it is VERY likely that you'll find SOMETHING!

Well hey, tough decision ... you've got some thinking to do. 'Hmm', indeed. Good luck! Keep in touch!

I think I might be too old for the military option. By the time I graduated Med School I would be over 40.

Logically, one should worry about those three semesters of Med School if one actually gets into Med School. Otherwise, it makes little difference. But, I hate the thought of paying so much for undergraduate courses.

Thankfully, it may work anyway. The SO makes over six figures as is. That is one benefit of being further along in life.

Great advice, thanks!

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

My roommate from the Academy went nuke subs, served five years, then got out and worked in a civilian nuke plant for a few years.

Then he decided to go to med school, did it for the Navy, and actually retired as a Navy doc 0-6. Can't recall how old he was when he got out of med school, but it was definitely mid-30's at least.

 

[jvlgato]

Good point, what am I thinking? ALL doctors are old when they finish. Yes, 40's is older than most, but you would easily have a 25-30 year career. And it's not like you'll be serving in the front line. You'll be a highly ranked officer, organizing health care and seeing patients. I wouldn't write off the military just yet. Plus I think they're pretty desperate. I see military booths at conferences all the time. And military folks get preference for jobs at the VA. I have a couple of friends who were active military until recently. They loved it. The only problem was being deployed after you have kids and leaving your wife and kids behind for months at a time or dragging them around the country or world with you.

 

[Sebastian]

@jvlgato @Hydroponic3385 Spoke to some academic advisors at UW today. They recommend community college for Post Bacc courses. I guess a lot of four-year universities frown upon those not seeking degrees taking up space in already crowded classes.

The good news is that I don't need as many classes as I thought. I need about 12 classes in Biology, Physics, Chem and a stats class. Only the Biochem gives me pause. The rest shouldn't be too difficult. I had forgotten that I kicked ass in HS in the sciences and the limited number of courses I took in college.

I think we can do this.

 

[David.]

Spoke to some academic advisors at UW today. They recommend community college for Post Bacc courses. I guess a lot of four-year universities frown upon those not seeking degrees taking up space in already crowded classes.

The good news is that I don't need as many classes as I thought. I need about 12 classes in Biology, Physics, Chem and a stats class. Only the Biochem gives me pause. The rest shouldn't be too difficult. I had forgotten that I kicked ass in HS in the sciences and the limited number of courses I took in college.

I think we can do this.

Just curious, how are you at math in relation to verbal/conceptual/humanities?

 

[Sebastian]

Just curious, how are you at math in relation to verbal/conceptual/humanities?

I was fair to good in the limited courses I took. Earned an A in stats in Grad School. The math requirements are two courses (stats and 200 level math) for UW Med School and for most others as well.

But, there is a fair amount in chem. I am confident that I can do well if I apply myself.

 

[jvlgato]

Awesome! Go kick some ass, King Stannis! [emoji106]

 

[jvlgato]

I just had a med student shadow me yesterday who majored in History. Pretty cool. She's applying for Orthopedic Surgery residency next spring.

I asked her how many programs she's applying to? She said the average is 70 and she's applying to 50. And she had a backup plan of Anesthesia or Radiology if she doesn't get in.

 

[Sebastian]

I just had a med student shadow me yesterday who majored in History. Pretty cool. She's applying for Orthopedic Surgery residency next spring.

I asked her how many programs she's applying to? She said the average is 70 and she's applying to 50. And she had a backup plan of Anesthesia or Radiology if she doesn't get in.

Wide nets are good nets.

 

[Sebastian]

@jvlgato Do you think there is value in a Psychiatrist having a masters in neuroscience?

I was briefly considering perhaps a MD-PhD program in neuroscience but that shit takes way too long and I would rather do clinical work than research. However, I think knowing the mechanics of the brain could offer additional insight.

Thoughts?

 

[jvlgato]

I don't see much value in doing a Master's degree before med school, unless you don't get into med school and need to do something while waiting to reapply that both looks good and might help you get through med school more easily.

You'll learn more than you'll ever want to know about the brain and the body in medical school and residency. If you are really crazy about the brain and still want more, you can do a fellowship in Neuropsychiatry and at least get paid to do the extra training. Plus you can get an extra Board Certification in Neuropsychiatry, and if you're working at the VA/military it'd be worth a little bit extra in salary.

I was actually accepted into the MD/PhD program at Case. But like you said, damn, talk about getting old while training for a career ... you'll be in school and residency forever! And other than looking really impressive, I don't know what people really do with their MD/PhD other than if they love research and want to get paid less to run a research lab.

 

[Sebastian]

I don't see much value in doing a Master's degree before med school, unless you don't get into med school and need to do something while waiting to reapply that both looks good and might help you get through med school more easily.

You'll learn more than you'll ever want to know about the brain and the body in medical school and residency. If you are really crazy about the brain and still want more, you can do a fellowship in Neuropsychiatry and at least get paid to do the extra training. Plus you can get an extra Board Certification in Neuropsychiatry, and if you're working at the VA/military it'd be worth a little bit extra in salary.

I was actually accepted into the MD/PhD program at Case. But like you said, damn, talk about getting old while training for a career ... you'll be in school and residency forever! And other than looking really impressive, I don't know what people really do with their MD/PhD other than if they love research and want to get paid less to run a research lab.

I had the same thought about the MS if my first attempt fails.

I was thinking of the MS after Med School as well. But it sounds like it would be a waste of time and the extra post-nominals not really worth it.

 

[jvlgato]

If you still want to pursue a Master's degree after 4 years of med school and 4 years of residency, I will personally offer you free counseling.