1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Well, I think we all need a break from the constant bickering the political threads cause. So, for the next few weeks we'll be removing all new political threads. Hopefully you'll all remember that we're all here because of the Cavs and that this is a sports forum first and foremost.

    - Ben

Black Lives Matter, and racial tensions in America...

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by IWantAKouki, Nov 24, 2015.

  1. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    27,266
    Likes Received:
    38,496
    Location:
    Pasadena, California
    I think @Cavatt is using the term "White people" in a general sense; whereas you're using it in a specific singular sense (i.e., a White person).

    I don't think @Cavatt is saying you can't be racist against a White person; he's saying that racism against Whites is not equivalent in scope or severity, in a general sense, as it is towards other minorities like Blacks or Latinos for example.

    I think that's an undeniable statement, right?
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
  2. Cavatt

    Cavatt All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,951
    Likes Received:
    7,413
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Yeah i would agree that something like that could happen. Gouri basically answered for me above.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Whittaker

    Whittaker Towel Waver

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    123
    That's not what he said.
    If that's what he meant, he can say so himself. I specifically asked him if he meant what he said. He doesn't have to answer but you walking it back doesn't really get us anywhere.
     
  4. Whittaker

    Whittaker Towel Waver

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    123
    Saw this after I replied to Gouri.
    Cool and thanks for clarifying.
     
  5. Mr. Orange

    Mr. Orange Cleveland Cavaliers, Back to Back NBA Champions

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,281
    Likes Received:
    3,503
    This is one of those problems that seems like a tough problem on the surface, but really it isn't.

    On one hand, yes we should protect the right to free speech and assembly, but...much like yelling fire in a crowded theater, we shouldn't protect all speech, and this would include hate speech. It has no place in America. It's like banning the Nazi party in Germany. Confederates and Nazi sympathizers should be banned here.

    If you get rid of the small number of fringe racists, you would get rid of the smaller number of violent anti-racists. Everyone is happy.
     
  6. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    27,266
    Likes Received:
    38,496
    Location:
    Pasadena, California
    ....

    You're welcome bro.. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    27,266
    Likes Received:
    38,496
    Location:
    Pasadena, California
    Just want to say I'm against this.

    I have no problem with hate speech being legal; it should be legal. And I do believe in an absolute right to speech that does not incite immediate violence or riots (like screaming fire in a crowded theater).

    I really don't think we should conflate the concept of freedom of speech with the defense of racists, though; and it seems racists try to make this argument that we should defend them because they have the right to do something vile. And I find that disingenuous, to say the least.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Whittaker

    Whittaker Towel Waver

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    123
    Its easy to define yelling fire in a crowned theater.
    Not so easy to define hate speech.
    Whoever gets to define it would get to control the parameters of political debate.
    Even on here, the simple term 'illegal immigrant' has been censored.
    But we can freely talk about f****** the first lady in the ***. :)
     
  9. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    27,266
    Likes Received:
    38,496
    Location:
    Pasadena, California
    And I disagree with this because many countries outlaw hate speech and it does work; it's just not in accordance with our values as Americans.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Whittaker

    Whittaker Towel Waver

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    123
    It reduced hate speech but it is yet to be determined if the overall effect over time is positive.
    Prohibition lowered the drinking rate for a few years but the unintended consequences made it a consensus failure.
     
  11. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    27,266
    Likes Received:
    38,496
    Location:
    Pasadena, California
    The laws aren't exactly new, we can make determinations up to this point. They do work in Europe. It really shouldn't be a question as to whether or not they do or don't do what is intended; but are the laws ethical. I would argue they are not.

    Right, but we're not seeing unintended consequences in Europe with respect to hate speech laws; not that I've seen at least.
     
  12. Jack Brickman

    Jack Brickman Preview Team

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    19,492
    Likes Received:
    21,430
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Totally agree that we shouldn't infringe on freedom of speech, even if it enables a lot of assholes.

    The obvious solution is for people to stop being fucking racist, but apparently that's too much to ask for.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Soda

    Soda Listen To The Kids Bruh!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    12,259
    Likes Received:
    9,496
    Location:
    CLE
    Correct. If that's what he's saying. We're on a board where word mincing is a regular practice, though.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Soda

    Soda Listen To The Kids Bruh!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    12,259
    Likes Received:
    9,496
    Location:
    CLE
    Personally, I think legally suppressing hate speech has a longer negative effect than flushing it out. I mean, if it were illegal, we'd have a lot more tension than is already there. It allows stereotyping & subtle, but purposeful, discrimination to go-on unscathed, not discussed, and untouched. As much as this band-aid hurts to tear off at once for some and some high tension insues, I think the fact that this is an issue on a macro level now bodes well for working through it moving forward.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. Cavatt

    Cavatt All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,951
    Likes Received:
    7,413
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    I am with you on this too. I think free speech is important even the horrible stuff.

    I also agree with you on the fact that we have no need to defend these racists. The ACLU can take care of it like they always do. If people want to protest these guys cool.

    If I have to come up with an example of someone whose free speech rights were violated and we should rush to their aid. These guys are very last on the list.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page