Carmelo Anthony

[Hydroponic3385]

It is gis job to care about his assets. This is all contingent upon LeBron leaving Miami, so that Heat pick us going to be valuable. Unprotected lotto picks don't grow on trees. That Memphis pick could also be valuable.

Getting a top 10 pick, and a top 20 pick is not bad compensation.

Just to clarify, Miami's 2015 pick is top 10 protected for the first 2 years.

 

[morgwon]

The picks you guys (posters on this board) are offering aren't going to be better than low 20s. I am just saying that the pipe dream trade offers aren't enough such as

AV+Jack+Karasev+1st is more than enough. We don't need to do a real trade, just an S&T.

You are going to have to give something valuable if you want him. New York is not going to get a pick in this years draft from the Cavs. So again why would New York pay $15 million for a future first round pick (which is the salary they would have to take back in a sign and trade).

 

[billmac91]

Gouri, I'd like to see how the Cavs could take on two max deals without giving up Anderson? I think Andy being on this roster is a component to LeBron coming as ridiculous as that may sound. I also wonder if a deal like Boston is offering doesn't have some legs due to the ability to dump payroll.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Gouri, I'd like to see how the Cavs could take on two max deals without giving up Anderson? I think Andy being on this roster is a component to LeBron coming as ridiculous as that may sound. I also wonder if a deal like Boston is offering doesn't have some legs due to the ability to dump payroll.

I have a chart!!! I just need to know how to embed it.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Gouri, I'd like to see how the Cavs could take on two max deals without giving up Anderson? I think Andy being on this roster is a component to LeBron coming as ridiculous as that may sound. I also wonder if a deal like Boston is offering doesn't have some legs due to the ability to dump payroll.

Ok, so I took an image of my excel file, so let me explain.

A few assumptions need to be made for this offseason:
1-Melo & LBJ sign a deal starting at $16.5 mil
2- Jack, Thompson, & Felix are moved for either immediate expirings or cap space.
3- Andy's option is decline, and his deal is restructured. Same for Delly. Both would need to be done with the MLE, after the cap is hit.
4- Cap Holds (min for 4 guys) & MLE are hard to determine, but in year 1 we have space to hit the floor.
5- Kyrie gets 25% max, not the Rose rule (may not qualify)

Then in year 2, Kyrie's max will kick in. Salary takes a huge jump. We will hit the tax, but it will be minor due to being our 1st year paying.

Year 3, Dion will be due for a raise, and we will be paying repeater tax.

If cap does not rise 5% per year, it will be just more tax money. I doubt Gilbert is worried if we field this team.

 

[gourimoko]

Gouri, I'd like to see how the Cavs could take on two max deals without giving up Anderson? I think Andy being on this roster is a component to LeBron coming as ridiculous as that may sound. I also wonder if a deal like Boston is offering doesn't have some legs due to the ability to dump payroll.

We'd have to give up Bennett, which I'd rather not do. He's the first overall pick and I have high hopes for his career. I think in 7 years, he'll have figured it out and be a significant player. In 7 years, AV will be chilling on a beach in Brazil.

But if we keep Andy for the season, it really hampers our ability to sign two max contracts. At that point, we would need a S&T for Melo. I don't like the idea of that because we lose leverage. If we can sign both players at $20M they can make a plausible case that they'll simply walk in free agency regardless of what the franchise wants. This forces Jackson's hand to only ask for a minimal sum.

Think about it. We traded LeBron James for 2 firsts. We should be offering something along the same lines for Melo.

 

[gourimoko]

Bigfoot, props on the spreadsheet. I really like the work, but I've gotta say.. I doubt Melo gives up around $7M annually to play for anybody. He'd stay in New York and gamble on Phil Jackson and making a run at getting help in 2015. I just don't see it happening at all.

I think we'd all be better off thinking about this in terms of getting Melo as close to $20M as possible. At that point, I think, he can justify leaving New York and going after a title. That's also where I think Chicago and Houston will be as well.

 

[jyan_osu]

Not only would he give up $7 million a year by an extra $30 in the final year with New York. You're talking giving up almost $60 million. No matter how much you make, it's hard to give up $60 million. The loss in going to another team would be less.

But.. if NY doesn't offer him the max.. then you're talking about a new ball game

 

[Mdog1]

Just to clarify, Miami's 2015 pick is top 10 protected for the first 2 years.

Oh I knew that, but with LeBron gone we can make some assumptions about the Heat. The first one is Bosh is gone as well. That team is going to be scrubsville and Wade (is there a difference?). With noone who can carry a team they will suck, Wade will have no motivation to play well, even if he could. That pick in 2017 is going to be an unprotected lotto pick, almost guaranteed if LeBron leaves imo.

 

[Mdog1]

An alternative path to keeping Andy is restructuring his deal. Before we do that we have to figure out roughly what he would be getting paid. I fully believe it would be the tax payers MLE because I assume he would go to a contender.

If he went to another team for the tax payers mle, he would make 4 million from us, and 14,023,910.51 for a total just over 18 million.

If he stayed here, restructured his deal, no 4 million bonus, and a 5 year deal for the tax payers mle with the 7.5% raises, he would 19,039,905.76, a difference of about a million dollars in our favour.

It could be mutually beneficial to restructure his deal. He would get more money, we would get more cap space by just over 700k.

That is an option I hope we explore before we have to waive him.

 

[gourimoko]

Not only would he give up $7 million a year by an extra $30 in the final year with New York. You're talking giving up almost $60 million. No matter how much you make, it's hard to give up $60 million. The loss in going to another team would be less.

But.. if NY doesn't offer him the max.. then you're talking about a new ball game

He's not really giving up $30M. It all depends on how his contract is structured and when he plans on opting out or signing any future extension. What he would be losing out on is his max raise (which is substantial), and whatever differential there is between New York's offer and anyone else's. The additional year comes into play, but not at full value as this isn't likely Melo's last contract.

 

[KB]

He's not really giving up $30M. It all depends on how his contract is structured and when he plans on opting out or signing any future extension. What he would be losing out on is his max raise (which is substantial), and whatever differential there is between New York's offer and anyone else's. The additional year comes into play, but not at full value as this isn't likely Melo's last contract.

Also don't forget Taxes and cost of living

NY it will probably cost close to 15 mil$ for the kind of place he wants to live in

OH the same kind of place would be 5 mil$ or less

TX would be similar to OH in terms of property cost

Then you get into income taxes - http://www.tax-brackets.org/ ( not even getting into property taxes )

(these may be a little off, math is not my strong point)

NY - Couples

For earnings over $20,058,550.00, you'll pay 8.82% plus $1,372,432.53 ( roughly 2.5 mil$ or more in taxes)

OH - Couples

For earnings over $204,200.00, you'll pay 5.92% plus $9,281.29 ( between 130,000$ to 200k$)

TX - Couples

For earnings over $0.00, you'll pay 0.00% plus $0.00

 

[gourimoko]

Also don't forget Taxes and cost of living

NY it will probably cost close to 15 mil$ for the kind of place he wants to live in

OH the same kind of place would be 5 mil$ or less

TX would be similar to OH in terms of property cost

Then you get into income taxes - http://www.tax-brackets.org/ ( not even getting into property taxes )

(these may be a little off, math is not my strong point)

NY - Couples

For earnings over $20,058,550.00, you'll pay 8.82% plus $1,372,432.53 ( roughly 2.5 mil$ or more in taxes)

OH - Couples

For earnings over $204,200.00, you'll pay 5.92% plus $9,281.29 ( between 130,000$ to 200k$)

TX - Couples

For earnings over $0.00, you'll pay 0.00% plus $0.00

You are very right about this, especially the tax issue. I did a spreadsheet on James and Bosh's taxes last year to show that they did not leave money on the table. In fact, by going to Miami and taking "less" he earns more over a 4 year period than he would have if he was in those other locations at the full max (breaks even with Chicago actually). Simply due to their tax code.

If I could figure that out in 5 minutes, surely their accountant (or Riley's) let them know ahead of time that they would be sacrificing no money at all. That's why I balk at the idea of these guys giving up tens of millions of dollars just to play in a particularly location or with a particular player.

It's also why if Bosh goes anywhere, he'll want equal money to what he's getting paid right now ($20M), if not more. Otherwise he'd just stay on the Heat and collect his $40M and become the #1 option after LeBron leaves.

 

[KI4MVP]

We can sign both to contracts very close to $20M without trading Dion and Bennett, but rather dumping salary. Also, I wouldn't trade Dion and Bennett before AV. AV+Jack+Karasev+1st is more than enough. We don't need to do a real trade, just an S&T.

We shouldn't be sending real assets to New York, and we don't really need to either.

look at the math in my post, I did a spreadsheet to figure it out. We have to unload Jack and release Gee to clear the space to sign LeBron (without giving up Andy), so he's not still around for a sign and trade for Melo. We have to send out 15 million in contracts in the sign and trade to take back 20. I'd like to keep Kyrie, the #1 pick, Andy, Dion and Bennett. But we only have 11.6 million in contracts beyond that. Someone has to go, and the trade has to be something the knicks will take. They aren't doing a sign and trade where they get only get back our worst players.

 

[CavsFaninNJ]

You are very right about this, especially the tax issue. I did a spreadsheet on James and Bosh's taxes last year to show that they did not leave money on the table. In fact, by going to Miami and taking "less" he earns more over a 4 year period than he would have if he was in those other locations at the full max (breaks even with Chicago actually). Simply due to their tax code.

If I could figure that out in 5 minutes, surely their accountant (or Riley's) let them know ahead of time that they would be sacrificing no money at all. That's why I balk at the idea of these guys giving up tens of millions of dollars just to play in a particularly location or with a particular player.

It's also why if Bosh goes anywhere, he'll want equal money to what he's getting paid right now ($20M), if not more. Otherwise he'd just stay on the Heat and collect his $40M and become the #1 option after LeBron leaves.

hmmmm

so that's what the Spurs are doing! Living in that tax haven.