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You out here giving birth to dogs now? Dog is already born homie, you just adopting. Money is not sentient. Relationship? That person already here. None of these examples are good.

Look for all we know, not existing is eternal bliss. And with life comes suffering. And with life comes death. So if non-existence is nirvana and bliss, would it not be inhumane to create life? Assuming we knew this about non-existence? Would you still create?

So it's the act of bringing new life into the world that freaks you out? Adopting a child and raising him/her as your own isn't a problem?
 
No...they just want them for themselves. They want their fulfillment.

This is actually a good metaphor for a lot of things.

Henry Ford went into business for himself to make money. Selfish bastard. Now billions of people drive cars enabling them to work farther from home or travel to see family or whatever else they want to do.

Apple went into business for themselves. Very selfish of them. As a result, millions or billions or however many people get enjoyment from their products.

John and Kim want to have a kid. They do. The human race lives on.

When people pursue their own interests, it benefits everyone, provided you aren't using force against anyone.

Which is fortunate, because every action that people take is in pursuit of an effect that they themselves desire. Yes, that means all people are "selfish".

You eat because you want to satiate your hunger. You give a homeless guy five bucks because you feel good helping him. You tell your old lady you don't want to have kids because you don't. That's no less selfish than telling her you do. It is what it is. It's what you want.

And if you don't want to have kids, you shouldn't have to. It's perfectly fine. But the fact that other people have them doesn't make them selfish. Acting in pursuit of an effect that you desire is not selfish. It's being a living thing.

A better definition of selfishness might be concerning yourself with your own desires with no regard for the well being of others. This surely fits some parents, but not all or even most of them. And if they raise their kids that way, they'll fuck them up. But not everyone is as miserable as you think they should be, nor will there children be.
 
So it's the act of bringing new life into the world that freaks you out? Adopting a child and raising him/her as your own isn't a problem?

Yeah. It’s more of a philosophical question. Now as I expected, there is a visceral and emotional reaction from parents saying things like “I am so happy now, and it’s so rewarding” which was obviously going to happen and I thought I addressed in the initial post. I imagine that you are happy and your young children are happy too. My question first came from seeing a lot of issues with adult children of my coworkers, and then hearing of the increased suicide rates in the US and things like that.
 
This is actually a good metaphor for a lot of things.

Henry Ford went into business for himself to make money. Selfish bastard. Now billions of people drive cars enabling them to work farther from home or travel to see family or whatever else they want to do.

Apple went into business for themselves. Very selfish of them. As a result, millions or billions or however many people get enjoyment from their products.

John and Kim want to have a kid. They do. The human race lives on.

When people pursue their own interests, it benefits everyone, provided you aren't using force against anyone.

Which is fortunate, because every action that people take is in pursuit of an effect that they themselves desire. Yes, that means all people are "selfish".

You eat because you want to satiate your hunger. You give a homeless guy five bucks because you feel good helping him. You tell your old lady you don't want to have kids because you don't. That's no less selfish than telling her you do. It is what it is. It's what you want.

And if you don't want to have kids, you shouldn't have to. It's perfectly fine. But the fact that other people have them doesn't make them selfish. Acting in pursuit of an effect that you desire is not selfish. It's being a living thing.

A better definition of selfishness might be concerning yourself with your own desires with no regard for the well being of others. This surely fits some parents, but not all or even most of them. And if they raise their kids that way, they'll fuck them up. But not everyone is as miserable as you think they should be, nor will there children be.

Like my reply to David, making cars is a much different conversation than making life.

And yes, ultimately being a good parent is the key to raising happy children and adults. Unless they have mental illness of course.
 
Every time you call someone homie or say things like “you just adopting” it makes me want to throw my son, who means absolutely everything to me, across the room.

I’m certain you’re white.
 
Every time you call someone homie or say things like “you just adopting” it makes me want to throw my son, who means absolutely everything to me, across the room.

I’m certain you’re white.

This is pretty funny, but I'm not sure why it upsets you. Basic pop/internet/twitter culture. It's just for fun. Speaking/writing like Ward Cleaver is just not as fun....

o-KEY-AND-PEELE-LITTLE-HOMIE-facebook.jpg
 
This has been a pretty fun discussion, and @Randolphkeys actually made the most salient posts that actually addressed my initial question/thoughts. Was looking for that type of conversation, and not the "I love my kid" posts.

As Keys said, when it seems like there isn't an adult in charge of the country, everything seems a bit crazy and that is worrisome. However, focusing on local, your immediate community and family does give a sense of control back that can be lost when you see things like children being taken from their families, ICE raids, walls being built, insults hurled, allies threatened, etc. (not a political commentary, just some examples of wild stuff in the news). This has given me a lot to think about and I thank him for that.

The existential and philosophical debate is certainly subjective and won't be answered here, and those with kids will of course say they can't imagine life without them. I get that. If anything this discussion is a reminder that good parenting and a compassionate society will lead to the best environment and best results for kids and as they grow into adults.
 
Like my reply to David, making cars is a much different conversation than making life.

Not really. It answers your existential question of whether or not "selfishness" is a good enough reason to have a child. Going by your use of the word, it is, because it's the reason anyone does anything and leads to any and all goodness there is in the world.

If someone wanted to have a child to sell it off into slavery, that would be a truly selfish reason, and not a morally acceptable one. Wanting to have a child to add a new life to the world is not. Just because you want to do something doesn't make doing it selfish. It depends on what you are doing and how to determine if it is selfish or not.

What you are left with are practical questions, like are there too many Republicans left in the world to want to raise a child in it, and that is entirely up to you and your preferences and has nothing to do with selfishness.
 
You out here giving birth to dogs now? Dog is already born homie, you just adopting.
.. this is stupid. You said not to do things because they benefit yourself. I'm illustrating how that doesn't make sense using your logic. The fact that you adopt a dog and don't birth it has nothing to do with your claim.

Money is not sentient. Relationship? That person already here. None of these examples are good.
no they are perfect. You are admonishing things because they are selfish because they serve to benefit the person considering them. Which is moronic. I've just illustrated that it'd a pretty dumb concept by using examples that make that obvious. You are moving the goal posts and coming up with non sequiturs because I have successfully done that


Look for all we know, not existing is eternal bliss. And with life comes suffering. And with life comes death. So if non-existence is nirvana and bliss, would it not be inhumane to create life? Assuming we knew this about non-existence? Would you still create?
OK then go die. I really don't care what you do. It's your own decision. I don't care if you have kids. You won't die because you know you'd rather be alive and this ruins your whole thread.
 
I feel sadness for Mr.Orange.

Unless that is also selfish?
 
Not sure I understand the comments about not wanting kids because "modern society is cruel". Our "1st world problems" today are pretty small compared to the problems of 100+ years ago, yet people still had kids. Back then people regularly had 6+ kids and had to hope that a few of them made it to adulthood. Sure life is a struggle sometimes, but I love it. I would live forever if I could.
 
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Hey, Happy Father's Day you latex-allergic, high sperm count fucks!
 
Yeah I don't think you did understand.

It's the existential question. Is your unhappiness and unfullfillment a reason to create life? Is that the most selfish of choices? Is your unfullfillment a reason to continue this cycle? I don't think most people think of the existential part before they have kids. No...they just want them for themselves. They want their fulfillment.

And you didn't understand my point.

What is the purpose of life, if not personal fulfillment and happiness? How is pursuing that somehow worthy of suspicion, or an inadequate reason to do something? Your formulation actually seems backwards to me -- I'd say that it is impossible to be a good parent unless it brings you personal fulfillment and happiness. It is too hard a job, and requires too many sacrifices, to do it for purely altruistic reasons for so long.
 
Are you having a mid life crisis or something?
 
Are you having a mid life crisis or something?

Existential crisis? Or maybe it is a mid life crisis though I am not yet middle aged.

These deeper philosophical questions can be troubling to think of in ones mind.
 

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