Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position

[buzzdog]

Watching Mayfield last night I have a few takes on the kid. I do think he is obviously talented and capable. But I do think his success has a lot to do with the system he's running (not to take anything away from him for that). When I saw Georgia shut him down for sections of the game last night, that is pretty much what I envision happening to him when he faces NFL defenses. They'll hem him in, collapse the pocket, and force him to throw over the forest of 6'6" OL. He clearly had problems when the Oklahoma misdirections and gimmicks broke down and were properly defensed.

I think if you put Darnold behind that same OL with the same running game and weapons running a more conventional offense he would have shredded the Georgia pass defense. Watching Darnold against OSU it looked like he was playing for the Browns but with receivers who could occasionally get seperation. He was constantly getting rushed, flushed and hurried. By comparison Mayfield had a Cadillac and Darnold was driving a Yugo, but Darnold held his own despite steep odds against him. Put Mayfield on the USC offense and he would be complete shit.

I do see Mayfield's upside as a Kurt Warner type of QB but I think it will take him some time and development to get there if he ever does get there. And that would be pretty damn good. I just don't see him being that guy out of the gate in a new system against tougher competition.

Darnold would be best served to sit and learn behind a vet for a year also.

 

[Binkster]

My wish list for the QB position;

1) Sign the best available FA veteran QB who will come here. On the extreme slim to none chance we could lure Cousins that would allow us to pass on drafting a high QB but I don't think that's happening. I wish we could have gotten Jimmy G. Now I'm just happy with the best available FA and I'd be willing to promise 1 full season of starting duty for Smith, Keenum or Taylor. Next tier down I'd make them compete.

2) Draft Darnold or Mayfield. If Dorsey was high on Rosen and if Rosen was willing to take on the Browns challenge then I would say draft him, but none of that seems to be the case. After watching this week Darnold still seems to be the most NFL ready QB with the highest upside but I would want Dorsey to insist that he sit behind the veteran for a whole season a-la Goff.

3) Keep and groom Kizer. He could still be good someday, and there are usually injury opportunities to be had.

Meh.

If Rosen is the cream of the crop (and it looks pretty obvious that he is), draft him. I really don't care where he prefers to be. That's the beauty of the draft - the teams hold the leverage and Rosen's options are severely limited.

Options - 1. Go back to school 2. Sit out a year 3. Kick 4. Scream 5. Deal with it and get to work

 

[buzzdog]

Meh.

If Rosen is the cream of the crop (and it looks pretty obvious that he is), draft him. I really don't care where he prefers to be. That's the beauty of the draft - the teams hold the leverage and Rosen's options are severely limited.

Options - 1. Go back to school 2. Sit out a year 3. Kick 4. Scream 5. Deal with it and get to work

If that were the only issue I could agree. Add to that the chance that Dorsey isn't sold on him for whatever reason (immobility?). Add the fact that he has already had pretty serious injury issues. The shoulder appears to be okay but starting your NFL career with 2 concussions already on your CTE history? That knocks him down a couple of notches in my book even if he looks like the best guy in other aspects.

 

[natedagg]

I don't think we'll draft Rosen because of the medical history. Shoulder surgery is one thing, but 2 concussions for a guy who will likely have a pretty good life outside of football? That's too risky for my tastes. There's a non-negligible probability that the guy just up-and-retires after a few years, unexpectedly, and based on a big hit. Sure if we had a good QB for a few years that'd be nice, but I think that risk is there. Dorsey doesn't like him, but Boobie does, so pretty much I have no idea what to believe. My point is that a "bust" is a player who doesn't perform up to their draft slot and that HAS to include length of career due to injuries.

Now OTOH if dude wants to play somewhere else and we're offered a HAUL, then maybe we can 1st trade up to #2 with our #4, then offload #1 or something...

 

[CBBI]

Meh.

If Rosen is the cream of the crop (and it looks pretty obvious that he is), draft him. I really don't care where he prefers to be. That's the beauty of the draft - the teams hold the leverage and Rosen's options are severely limited.

Options - 1. Go back to school 2. Sit out a year 3. Kick 4. Scream 5. Deal with it and get to work

I would just be a little weary of calling that bluff.

Could the Browns hold Rosen’s feet to the fire in this scenario? Sure.

Could Rosen make everyone’s (his own included) lives a living hell in the process? Unfortunately yes.

There IS precedent for this. Eli, Elway, etc.

 

[CBBI]

In terms of pure passing ability, Rosen is a cut above.

He’s worthy of being a No. 1 overall pick based on his strictly on-the-field ability.

But the injury history terrifies me. A non mobile QB that’s already had multiple concussions? Yikes.

And fair or not, so many people have heard and shared the rumblings about Rosen’s character, work ethic and entitlement.

It’s hard to shake the Jay Cutlerish “I play football because I’m really good at it, not because I love it” vibes out of Rosen.

Which is a shame because he’s got such super talent.

 

[natedagg]

In terms of pure passing ability, Rosen is a cut above.

He’s worthy of being a No. 1 overall pick based on his strictly on-the-field ability.

But the injury history terrifies me. A non mobile QB that’s already had multiple concussions? Yikes.

And fair or not, so many people have heard and shared the rumblings about Rosen’s character, work ethic and entitlement.

It’s hard to shake the Jay Cutlerish “I play football because I’m really good at it, not because I love it” vibes out of Rosen.

Which is a shame because he’s got such super talent.

Exactly. As fun as it is to play GM, the real-life decision can't be made on just the tape. I think you can assign these probabilities of him being a 1-10 player, with 1 being a bust and 10 being amazing, and you simply MUST account for injuries and love of the game when looking at either (a) him being a bust because he isn't medically cleared to play for games at a time, is tentative, has headaches, etc. and (b) him being a bust because although he learned the game great, played 1.5 great years at QB, he just takes one hit and says "I don't need this shit." Because unlike some of these guys, he really doesn't.

 

[Matches]

I admit that I am that Browns fan with with phobia of taking that high quarterback. And none of these guys give me warm feelings about hitching the franchise wagon to and for obvious reasons. There are sound arguments against each of the 4-5 guys as The Pick being made in here and in the 2018 prospects thread constantly.


Rosen - doesn't want to be here, injury history, Jay Cutler syndrome

Darnold - mistake/fumble prone, might not come out

Mayfield - Short, Hue likes 'em tall, Big 12 defenses are shit, system QB

Allen - Dire accuracy issues

Lamar Jackson - ran a simplistic offense, "running QB" vs "QB who can run"

So is there any reasonably available quarterback this offseason which would make you say, "forget it, these guys are all flawed. I'll ride with _____" for a couple/few years?

I think Cousins is an obvious choice and I think really the only one. Nabbing him somehow means you are free to do whatever you want and really get something for that pick from NY. Then you can likely get 2 of Minkah, Chubb, Barkley, or an LT with the two top 5 picks Sashi Brown was smart/incompetent enough to bequeath you.

Tyrod Taylor and Alex Smith are sketchy as possible "we don't need a QB in this draft" guys. Smith was already seen as needing a replacement groomed for him. And Taylor has (rather inexplicably based on stats alone) been jerked around in Buffalo as not really a true #1 quarterback. The prospect of adding both Chubb and Fitzpatrick to the defense makes me almost willing to forgo QB yet again, with the plan being to grab 1 in the first round no matter what the next season if I've got Smith, and judging Taylor on his merits if it's him. Either way I'm at 4-8 wins barring a catastrophic injury.

There's the Minnesota guys, any of whom could be available. 2 are serious injury risks and the other is, well, Case Keenum. I'd take all of them as bridge QBs for your #1 but not as a long term starter.

Other names like AJ McCarron and Chase Daniel are likely not even good enough to outplay the QB you'd pick. Hell even DeShone Kizer beat Brock Osweiler for the job. In fact if Hue had just stuck with Brock he'd probably have won him a game or 3.

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[Hurl Bruce]

So someone at Cleveland.com reported that NE declined sending Jimmy G here for the Texans pick? what the fuck???

 

[Ohio]

So someone at Cleveland.com reported that NE declined sending Jimmy G here for the Texans pick? what the fuck???

I'm sorry, but just no way that is true. No way.

 

[AZ_]

I'm sorry, but just no way that is true. No way.

Not at all shocking.

Belichick wanted to send him somewhere where he wouldn’t want to/have the option of leaving as a FA.

Hence, SF. Perfect spot, they’ll eat the value and he’ll never bother them out there.

 

[Surge]

If we got Alex Smith would it be worth it to let Kizer sit and learn next year?

Im really liking some of the other prospects and am not blown away with the qbs we have the pick of.

 

[AZ_]

If we got Alex Smith would it be worth it to let Kizer sit and learn next year?

Im really liking some of the other prospects and am not blown away with the qbs we have the pick of.

They have to add one of them.

Kizer simply didn’t show enough.

 

[Surge]

They have to add one of them.

Kizer simply didn’t show enough.

I can agree with that I guess. I don't think the team and coaching did him any favors.

But we don't owe anyone on the roster anything.

Bring in talent.

 

[Ohio]

Not at all shocking.

Belichick wanted to send him somewhere where he wouldn’t want to/have the option of leaving as a FA.

Hence, SF. Perfect spot, they’ll eat the value and he’ll never bother them out there.

...It's the #4 pick in the draft...

And yeah I know that wasn't the case when the trade was made. but Watson had already gotten hurt, the writing was on the wall.