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Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position

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Sorry if long!

So doing my research today... Looking through at who's going to be making our draft decisions and their philosophies.. looking at their picks and reasonings and prospect and just trying to find any little tidbit I can to try to get a better understanding.

First off, who we have in charge of our picks has to get you excited (John Dorsey, Eliot Wolf, Alonzo Highsmith, Scot McCloughan). The Ron wolf tree is absolutely Amazing all around....The former mentor and teacher of Ted Thompson, John Schneider, John Dorsey, Scot McCloughan, and Reggie McKenzie...who btw have pretty much changed the landscape of the NFL. You start to realize where the "football guys" term comes from. Ron single-handedly turned Green Bay into what they are now. Thompson ran the same system in Green Bay, and Schneider, Dorsey, McKenzie, and McCloughan have based their scouting approach on what Wolf created. It's what they know and all have been successful. All known for their scouting and being able to run a franchise. So to be honest. Whoever they do pick. I'm going to support it because they all have a VERY good track record.

Now onto how it might correlate with our Qb pick an something that is sticking out slightly is the similiarity between Aaron Rodgers... And get this.. Baker Mayfield. Not Rosen.

Some tidbits..

-Despite his record-setting statistics, Rodgers attracted little interest from Division I programs. He attributed the relative lack of attention in the recruiting process to his unimposing physical stature as a high school player at 5'10" (1.78 m) and 165 lb (75 kg). Rodgers had wanted to attend Florida State under head coach Bobby Bowden, but was rejected.He garnered only an offer to compete for a scholarship as a walk on from Illinois.

-As a Jr. College transfer to Cal, He was named the starting quarterback in the fifth game of the 2003 season. As a sophomore, he helped lead the Golden Bears to a 7–3 record as a starter.

-As a junior, Rodgers led Cal to a 10–1 record and top-five ranking at the end of the regular season.

-Rodgers holds the Cal career record for lowest percentage of passes intercepted at 1.95 percent. (Baker holds the record at OU at only 1.82% with twice as many attempts)

-Rodgers was expected to be selected early in the in the 2005 NFL Draft as he had posted impressive numbers as a junior with Cal, throwing for 2,320 yards with a 67.5 completion rating in the regular season.He threw for 24 touchdowns and only eight interceptions in his last college season, impressing many NFL scouts. They commented that he was a "talented strong-armed junior" who "combines arm strength, mechanics and delivery to make all the throws", but noted that his stats could be inflated due to playing in a quarterback-friendly system at Cal while going against PAC-10 defenses and that he would need to adjust to the more elaborate defensive schemes of the NFL. (Sound familiar?)

Aaron Rodgers at combine: 6'2 225lbs
Baker Mayfield at combine: 6'1 215lbs
 
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Comments about Aaron Rodgers before the 2005 NFL Draft:

Marc Ross, Buffalo:
"He's a little short. The thing you worry about is those (Jeff) Tedford guys. They don't do anything for a couple years and then they have a good year or two. Who of his quarterbacks has done what they're supposed to do? None of them. Is he just working magic with great college quarterbacks or just manufacturing guys?"

AFC scout:
"I like him. He's a very talented guy. A lot of quarterbacks that were system people have not done very well. That puts up a red flag. Not that he is one of them. He could be an exception. But I can't get it out of my craw."

Rich Snead, Tennessee: "I like him. I just don't know if he's maxed out. He's more accurate than (Kyle) Boller but probably not as athletic. He's a better player than Akili Smith. He's more athletic than (Trent) Dilfer was. He's a little more mobile than Joey Harrington. He had to go to a JC because no one would recruit him because they said he was too small. He's been busting his (expletive) his whole life to get to this point. I just don't know how much more he has to give."

AFC scout: "I think he has some upside although there are some things that are just ordinary about him."

NFC scout: "I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn't have great ability to change the release of the football. He's mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better."

NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."

AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."

AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."

Bill Polian, Indianapolis: "I see a guy who has good arm strength. I see some athletic ability. I see a guy who was pretty good with a good team. I see a guy who's in a pretty efficient offense. Am I certain that he's going to come in and lead my team to the Promised Land? I can't say that. I'm not even sure I can say that about Alex Smith."

AFC scout: "He's a system quarterback. 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy. I don't think there's a quarterback in the draft worthy of a first-round pick. I'm dead serious. None of them are worth it."

NFC scout: "He fit right into the Cal system. He probably executed that as well as anybody. He doesn't have as strong an arm as Boller but can make the same reads and play the scheme as well as Boller did.

(Some of those quotes have a Rosen Sound as well too.)

A Ron wolf Tree pick by Ted Thompson/ Eliot wolf that sounds Damn similiar to a one, Baker Mayfield.

A tree that has multiple "Shorter" QBs in Farve (6'2 223), Rodgers (6'2 225) , Russell Wilson (5'11 206), Mark Brunell (6'1 215) ...options were limited but we did Just sign Tyrod as well (6'1 215)...Dorsey has said more than once that he believes analytics has a place, but his emphasis is 85% traditional football guys and scouting, 15% analytics.

Add all this to Dorsey Stating how many times he's personally went to watch Mayfield and stating "hes a Football guy, he's a winner". Add it to Scot (same tree) outright saying his pick is Baker Hands down... Add it to Having Mr. Money ball in Paul which his choice has to be obvious..just some food for thought.
 
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Sounds like Rosen's stock is dropping like a rock. Eric Galko who is very well thought of, has him slipping to 17 in his new mock drafts.

I'm not the biggest Rosen fan but there is no fucking way this happens. He's too good, even with the personality stuff. Rodgers happened once and the NFL learned how dumb it was. Someone would trade up if he got that far (and I think he'd be picked even before then).
 
I'm not the biggest Rosen fan but there is no fucking way this happens. He's too good, even with the personality stuff. Rodgers happened once and the NFL learned how dumb it was. Someone would trade up if he got that far (and I think he'd be picked even before then).

What has happened that would lead to a sudden drop? All I see in surveying a bunch of mock drafts and articles is the same, tired narrative of "He doesn't need football," "He gets bored," "He's not a leader and has character issues," "lacks blue-collar grit." Media really hates the kid.

Haaretz had an article that basically chalks up all the so-called red flags on him as a product of anti-Semitism.

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/the...surrounding-nfl-prospect-josh-rosen-1.6015100


The Anti-Semitism Controversy Surrounding NFL Prospect Josh Rosen
Analysts really seem to care that he’s Jewish and fixate on Rosen's many public statements including once wearing a hat on the golf course that read 'F*** Trump'

For most of last year, many predicted that UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen would be the first player chosen in the 2018 National Football League draft.

The sturdy 6-foot-4 signal-caller has racked up an impressive array of passing statistics since his freshman year in 2015, and analysts have praised the right-hander’s throwing mechanics, accuracy and poise in the pocket. The Cleveland Browns, the beleaguered franchise that holds the No. 1 pick this year, badly need a quarterback. The Jewish kid from Manhattan Beach, California, who had a bar mitzvah and is just now barely old enough to legally drink alcohol, was set to make Jewish sports history at Thursday’s draft.

TaahJ38.jpg


But over the past few months, Rosen’s stock has begun to drop. In February, Todd McShay, a leading NFL draft analyst, predicted that the New York Giants would select him with the second pick. On Monday, prominent Sports Illustrated writer Peter King wrote that he “can’t find a likely spot” for Rosen in the top six picks. On Wednesday, it was reported that the New England Patriots are interested in Rosen — and they have the 23rd overall pick (although they could trade with another team to get a higher slot).

The reason for the slide? Apparently it has nothing to do with Rosen’s physical health or ability to sling a football, but rather involves who he is and what he has said off the field. And for at least one prominent sports TV personality, the conversation about Rosen has dipped into anti-Semitism.

Some background: He’s a talker
Rosen has not just made headlines with his grid skills. He has criticized the college football system, arguing that the high level of play required by the sport and schoolwork don’t mesh. In the same vein, he sarcastically blasted UCLA for signing a $280 million apparel deal with Under Armour while college athletes are unpaid. He once wore a hat on the golf course that read “F*** Trump.” He snuck a hot tub into his dorm room.

This tendency to speak his mind — what the scouts call “intangibles” — put him at odds with UCLA coach Jim Mora throughout Rosen’s tenure with the Bruins. Mora said Rosen reminded him of Johnny Manziel, a former college star whose once promising NFL career was derailed by unorthodox behavior, substance abuse issues and multiple arrests.

Rosen has also been open about his ambitions for a post-NFL career, something that scouts and others in the industry have taken to mean that he isn’t focused enough on football. He told Bleacher Report in August that he wants to get an MBA, create a business and “own the world.” The Sporting News reported in January that some believed Rosen was only interested in football to “make money and support the lifestyle he wants.”

Analysts really seem to care that he’s Jewish.
After the waves of criticism poured in about Rosen’s off-the-field opinions, analysts were left wondering how teams would evaluate him and where exactly he could be selected in the draft. Some chose to dig into other factors that might offer clues, such as his identity and background.

“According to my source, he’d rather be in New York [on the Giants]. He’s Jewish, there’s a stronger Jewish community, he’d rather be in the New York market than the Cleveland market, blah blah blah, we don’t know,” Stephen A. Smith, a prominent ESPN commentator, said on a radio show a couple of weeks ago.

Rosen has hinted at this kind of Jewish preference before. He was born and raised in an affluent area of Southern California, the son of Charles Rosen, an orthopedic surgeon who was once on President Barack Obama’s shortlist to become surgeon general, and Liz Lippincott, a journalist and the great-granddaughter of the founder of the University of Pennsylvania’s prestigious Wharton School of Business. In 2016, he told Sports Illustrated that Los Angeles’ large Jewish community was a factor that brought him to UCLA, even though he had wanted to attend Stanford — he was rejected by the Northern California school despite his stellar grades and standout athletic ability.

“In retrospect, being Jewish is a big reason why I should have considered UCLA,” he said. “Just because of how Jewish Hollywood is, and they really want someone to look up to because they just don’t have professional athletes.”

Another ESPN radio show, hosted by sports writers Jorge Sedano and LZ Granderson and former NFL player Keyshawn Johnson, picked up where Smith left off. But their analysis brought up Rosen’s wealthy parents, and it became a little strange. “First thing you say: doctor, Manhattan Beach the first thing you think, at least I think: pretty affluent neighborhood, little bit of money,” Johnson said. “They could be broke as a bag of glass, I don’t know, but certainly doesn’t seem that way.

“When you talk about his religion, I believe Josh is Jewish, [OK]?” he continued. “New York — big Jewish community much like L.A. You factor that into the equation.” Granderson posited that Rosen might even play better if he were drafted by New York or a team in a city with a big Jewish population, and Johnson agreed.

“If he is an observing Jewish individual who is embraced by the local community, that will certainly raise his ball,” Granderson said.

Is this anti-Semitism?
The development in this story that seems to have hit Rosen’s draft hopes the hardest came earlier this month, when Mora questioned whether he is “fit” for the NFL. After praising his skill and intelligence on the field, the veteran coach told Sports Illustrated’s King that Rosen lacks a “blue-collar, gritty attitude.” “He needs to be challenged intellectually, so he doesn’t get bored. He’s a millennial,” Mora said.

For Tony Kornheiser — the sports writer and TV personality who stars on ESPN’s “Pardon the Interruption” — this was the last straw.

“This is classic anti-Semitism. Absolutely classic anti-Semitism. ‘We don’t want this guy, this guy’s too smart,’” Kornheiser said in a rant on his podcast last week. “There’s no such thing as too smart [T]his is anti Semitism in its most blatant form. It’s like, ‘we don’t want this guy.’” Kornheiser, who is Jewish, and his co-hosts also likened the NFL’s fear of Rosen to its past prejudice against black quarterbacks, who on the flip side have been labeled as not smart enough to succeed at the demanding position.

Of course, Rosen’s fellow quarterbacks in the draft pool, such as Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen and Sam Darnold, are also all millennials. It’s also worth noting that Mayfield, the Heisman Trophy winner from the University of Oklahoma, was arrested last year for being publicly intoxicated. But his personality hasn’t made as many headlines as Rosen’s leading up to the draft.

Former NFL quarterback Sage Rosenfels, who also is Jewish, saw Mora’s comments in a different light.

“When Jim Mora said Josh Rosen is really smart and needs to be challenged every day or he’ll get bored, that improved his draft stock in my book,” he wrote. “Give me a player who wants to be challenged and doesn’t get overwhelmed with basic XOs. I like this kid more and more.”
 
Rosen is an atheist, FWIW.

Idk, I'm still over here wondering why people are trying to make a Lifetime movie about other QBs return from injury while Rosen gets a red flag in spite of a currently clean bill of health.

In any event, excited for Thursday.
 
Rosen is an atheist, FWIW.

Idk, I'm still over here wondering why people are trying to make a Lifetime movie about other QBs return from injury while Rosen gets a red flag in spite of a currently clean bill of health.

In any event, excited for Thursday.
When people are being anti-Semitic towards atheists for the sole purpose of bringing them down as prospects it's just gone too far
 
When people are being anti-Semitic towards atheists for the sole purpose of bringing them down as prospects it's just gone too far

I mean it is par for the course for Jewish people to see attacks on a fellow co-religionist as a case of anti-semitism.

I think they are just searching for a reason as to why the media has it in for Rosen so bad since he matriculated to UCLA.

Why they don't see the obvious, that conservative NFL writers and fans hate the kid because he's liberal and won't shut up and dribble, is beyond me.

Rosen is an atheist, FWIW.

Idk, I'm still over here wondering why people are trying to make a Lifetime movie about other QBs return from injury while Rosen gets a red flag in spite of a currently clean bill of health.

In any event, excited for Thursday.

"Dorsey, May I Sleep with He Doesn't Need Football?"
 
Rosen is an atheist, FWIW.

Idk, I'm still over here wondering why people are trying to make a Lifetime movie about other QBs return from injury while Rosen gets a red flag in spite of a currently clean bill of health.

In any event, excited for Thursday.

What do you think his opinion is on sensible gun control?
 
One last thing for the night. I rewatched the presser from,what, 3 days ago from Dorsey just to see if he gave any clues or indifferent body language signs...nothing was really given but one thing he said when asked comparing what's easier to fix between Darnolds turnovers or Allen's accuracy and he, based on body signs and oculesics, truthfully stated what he looks for is " Does he Win? Does he have accuracy? Does he have a strong arm? Can he throw the ball in the red zone, in tight windows, and drive the ball? At the end of the game...does he win? That's what I look for".

-Well, all Have sufficient arms.
-All good Accuracy...besides Allen.
-All winning Records...Besides Rosen.
-Mayfield/OU . 12-2
-Darnold/USC. 11-3
-Rudolph/oSU. 10-3
-Allen/Wyoming. 8-5
-Jackson/Lou. 8-5
-Rosen/UCLA. 6-7

Had to dig for the Red zone/3rd down stats. But here they are. (Doesnt adjust for dropped balls and such, as well as does not include Rushing stats/td's)

Baker Mayfield...
3rd Down: 49/79 (62.0%); 645 yards; 4 TD & 3 INT; 139.74 rating
Red Zone: 41/58 (70.7%); 333 yards; 24 TD & 2 INT; 248.56 rating

Sam Darnold...
3rd Down: 64/109 (58.7%); 832 yards; 6 TD & 2 INT; 137.34 rating
Red Zone: 27/49 (55.1%); 270 yards; 15 TD & 1 INT; 198.32 rating

Josh Rosen...
3rd Down: 53/102 (52.0%); 715 yards; 4 TD & 3 INT; 117.90 rating
Red Zone: 32/67 (47.8%); 227 yards; 15 TD & 4 INT; 138.16 rating

Lamar Jackson...
3rd Down: 52/94 (55.3%); 785 yards; 4 TD & 5 INT; 128.87 rating
Red Zone: 21/47 (44.7%); 212 yards; 14 TD & 1 INT; 176.61 rating

Josh Allen...
3rd Down: 46/83 (55.4%); 469 yards; 3 TD & 2 INT; 110.00 rating
Red Zone: 16/33 (48.5%); 156 yards; 8 TD & 0 INT; 168.20 rating

Mason Rudolph...
3rd Down: 61/102 (59.8%); 852 yards; 9 TD & 1 INT; 157.13 rating
Red Zone: 34/68 (50.0%); 305 yards; 17 TD & 2 INT; 164.29 rating

1. I didn't even know 248.56 passer rating was possible.

2. Darnold doing what he is at 20 yrs old is impressive and is the only one besides Mayfield that truly checks every box. While being 6'4 220lb. I think he is the perfect "Collaboratory" pick if Hue and Haley need their big AFC north QB. While also being 2 years and 2 months younger than Mayfield. We'll see in 96 hours.

It's going to be Darnold or Mayfield. And as much as I do love Mayfield Right now... I do wonder what 2 years and 2 more months of development and NFL Schemes would look like on Darnold.
 
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Now onto how it might correlate with our Qb pick an something that is sticking out slightly is the similiarity between Aaron Rodgers... And get this.. Baker Mayfield. Not Rosen.

I mentioned before that I am intrigued by Mayfield's leadership and accuracy. Having grown up in Wisc., the Pack are my second team so I follow GB a lot.

The biggest differences I see between Rodgers and Mayfield is:
#1- Aaron has a REALLY really quick release. Mayfield is not near as quick with the release, but then not many are.

#2- Couple Aaron's quick release with a "+" arm AND not only his accuracy but it's his ability to hit his receivers in spots that protect them from getting clobbered and with hitting them in stride.

I'd say Mayfield has a good arm, but not a "+" arm.

#3 - Rodgers was not a leader when he got there. It was always Brett's team, and it took a couple years after Brett had been gone for him to really rise to the Alpha position.

However, I can see Mayfield edging into the Alpha spot on the Browns even if he isn't playing...it is a major part of his personality. And considering the dearth of vocal type leadership guys on either side of the ball, I see this as a real positive. The Browns need some alpha attitude out there.

That said, you made some interesting comparisons.
 
I mentioned before that I am intrigued by Mayfield's leadership and accuracy. Having grown up in Wisc., the Pack are my second team so I follow GB a lot.

The biggest differences I see between Rodgers and Mayfield is:
#1- Aaron has a REALLY really quick release. Mayfield is not near as quick with the release, but then not many are.

#2- Couple Aaron's quick release with a "+" arm AND not only his accuracy but it's his ability to hit his receivers in spots that protect them from getting clobbered and with hitting them in stride.

I'd say Mayfield has a good arm, but not a "+" arm.

#3 - Rodgers was not a leader when he got there. It was always Brett's team, and it took a couple years after Brett had been gone for him to really rise to the Alpha position.

However, I can see Mayfield edging into the Alpha spot on the Browns even if he isn't playing...it is a major part of his personality. And considering the dearth of vocal type leadership guys on either side of the ball, I see this as a real positive. The Browns need some alpha attitude out there.

That said, you made some interesting comparisons.

Where in WI are you from?
 
Where in WI are you from?

Grew up about 30 miles west of GB. Went to games with my dad pretty regular.

As a kid I always liked going to church on home game days because the priest of the church had a clergy pass to the game. Start to finish the mass lasted about 35 minutes because he had to get to the game. All songs - 1 verse. 5 minute sermon. Rest of the stuff was always the shortest version. Cracked me up.

Things are/were different in Packerland, especially on game day.

Did you live in Wisc.?
 
Grew up about 30 miles west of GB. Went to games with my dad pretty regular.

As a kid I always liked going to church on home game days because the priest of the church had a clergy pass to the game. Start to finish the mass lasted about 35 minutes because he had to get to the game. All songs - 1 verse. 5 minute sermon. Rest of the stuff was always the shortest version. Cracked me up.

Things are/were different in Packerland, especially on game day.

Did you live in Wisc.?

Yes, I went to college there. I am very familiar with the Fox River Valley. Are you from Appleton?
 

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