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Do we still get swept if we kept the same roster we had before trade deadline (Except IT)?

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Wade would have helped. That’s about it. Crowder took retarded shots and couldn’t stay in front of anyone. Rose spent most of his time on his back after missing a layup, falling to the ground and watching our defense go 4 on 5. Shump was garbage.
 
Role players that play very well on other teams come to Cleveland to die and become scrubs. Then leave and become good again.
It's a coaching problem.

Hood is the only player I can think of who this was true of. Other guys performed similarly or better.

Crowder wasn't that good on Utah either.
 
IT was pretty much a big issue and he had to go.

But lets say we kept Wade, Crowder and Rose and only did the Lakers trade of Nance + Clarkson for IT + Frye + 2018 Cavs 1st Round Pick. Do we still get swept or may be win a game or two?

Probably hindsight and all considering but I have a feeling we would have done better if we still had someone like Wade to run the second unit and handle the ball and give LeBron some breather in each half. Also, with Crowder we would have had another big wing we could have put on KD and try to slow him down a bit.

What do you all reckon?
Can't comment too much on Wade because of the chemistry between him and others. There wasn't any.
But his skills would have been there..his jumper was gone.

Crowder needed to be in a structure type offense.
Yet he wasn't displaying that effort on defense that I thought he would.
Rose probably would have wanted a leave of absence during the finals.
So while I don't think it would have been as bad..I don't know how much the Cavs could have gotten from those 3.
Better solution..have some legid refs in all the games.
 
Can't comment too much on Wade because of the chemistry between him and others. There wasn't any.
But his skills would have been there..his jumper was gone.

Crowder needed to be in a structure type offense.
Yet he wasn't displaying that effort on defense that I thought he would.
Rose probably would have wanted a leave of absence during the finals.
So while I don't think it would have been as bad..I don't know how much the Cavs could have gotten from those 3.
Better solution..have some legid refs in all the games.

Maybe it's the "non stats compiling" part of the game for me, but when I watched Wade I found him to be extremely useful. I thought his rebounding from the 2G position was exceptional, and I felt like his defense was solid. Not amazing, but he played the position with intelligence.

I still think Wade should've been the starting 2G when IT came back, and then seen how it all gelled.
 
Maybe it's the "non stats compiling" part of the game for me, but when I watched Wade I found him to be extremely useful. I thought his rebounding from the 2G position was exceptional, and I felt like his defense was solid. Not amazing, but he played the position with intelligence.

I still think Wade should've been the starting 2G when IT came back, and then seen how it all gelled.
Thomas would have probably said he didn't want to play behind Lebron's buddy either.
 
Thomas would have probably said he didn't want to play behind Lebron's buddy either.

This isn't directed at you, but all basketball analysis said the best line-up when IT came back was:

IT
Wade
LeBron
Crowder
Love

Second unit of:

Rose
JR
Green
Thompson

For some unknown reason, they never paired IT with Wade, or Rose with JR.

I hope I don't have to explain the benefits of why IT and Wade make more sense than IT and JR. And why Rose and JR makes much more sense than Rose and Wade.

Just a clusterfuck of rotations. It's mind-bendingly bad.

And honestly, if you had re-inserted Wade back into starting 5, I wonder if maybe it rejuvenates him after being benched for JR. Keep in mind, Wade started next to Rose.....which is a trash pairing. After a few weeks of it not working, they moved JR to starting unit until IT got healthy. But they never re-addressed JR starting next to IT when it meant our second unit consisted of two guys who can't shoot. Like, just basic common sense shit.

Wade should've been given a chance next to IT to see how the court spread a bit and let him operate in more space.

But they never even tested it.....it was awful.
 
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This isn't directed at you, but all basketball analysis said the best line-up when IT came back was:

IT
Wade
LeBron
Crowder
Love

Second unit of:

Rose
JR
Green
Thompson

For some unknown reason, they never paired IT with Wade, or Rose with JR.

I hope I don't have to explain the benefits of why IT and Wade make more sense than IT and JR. And why Rose and JR makes much more sense than Rose and Wade.

Just a clusterfuck of rotations. It's mind-bendingly bad.

And honestly, if you had re-inserted Wade back into starting 5, I wonder if maybe it rejuvenates him after being benched for JR. Keep in mind, Wade started next to Rose.....which is a trash pairing.

Wade should've been given a chance next to IT to see how the court spread a bit and let him operate in more space.

But they never even tested it.....it was awful.
This is directed at you..where you get the "THEY" stuff from? :chuckle:
Ty Lue is the only one making those rotations..that man sittin next to him should making all the decisions..Drew had those guys balling...
 
This isn't directed at you, but all basketball analysis said the best line-up when IT came back was:

IT
Wade
LeBron
Crowder
Love

Second unit of:

Rose
JR
Green
Thompson

For some unknown reason, they never paired IT with Wade, or Rose with JR.

I hope I don't have to explain the benefits of why IT and Wade make more sense than IT and JR. And why Rose and JR makes much more sense than Rose and Wade.

Just a clusterfuck of rotations. It's mind-bendingly bad.

And honestly, if you had re-inserted Wade back into starting 5, I wonder if maybe it rejuvenates him after being benched for JR. Keep in mind, Wade started next to Rose.....which is a trash pairing. After a few weeks of it not working, they moved JR to starting unit until IT got healthy. But they never re-addressed JR starting next to IT when it meant our second unit consisted of two guys who can't shoot. Like, just basic common sense shit.

Wade should've been given a chance next to IT to see how the court spread a bit and let him operate in more space.

But they never even tested it.....it was awful.

Good thoughts, although IT never really did get healthy, and went down for surgery in March. So even if it may have worked in theory - and you're right that Lue should have tried it - it wouldn't have been the answer anyway.
 
Wade was a cancer in the locker-room, so I think this discussion is moot.

LeBron seemed more locked in and genuinely happy when Wade was gone....I suspect because he was try to be an "alpha" on LeBron's team.

Crowder was a fucking disaster towards the end of his tenure here. I suppose if we live in this alternative universe, where he was no longer pouting and playing like he did in Utah (like he gave a shit), then sure....he was a possibly difference maker against GSW

......but seriously, Crowder's last 15 games......Cavs were 6-9 and Crowder was booty.

8.2 PPG, 3.2 REB, 1.0 AST, 0.8 STL, 0.3 BLK, 32.7 3PT% (17/52)

He only made more than 1 3PT FG in 5 of the 15 games....and only once made more than 2. This was coming off a SEASON where he averaged 2.2 makes per game over 72 games.

This question operates in a perfect world scenario that doesn't consider how far down these guys were dragging the team and locker-room.

I'd be far more inclined to bet the team would have been far too acidic heading to the playoffs with these dickheads still here. The guys brought in were maybe less talented to some degree but they at least were good teammates and contributed to a better locker-room dynamic.
 
This is directed at you..where you get the "THEY" stuff from? :chuckle:
Ty Lue is the only one making those rotations..that man sittin next to him should making all the decisions..Drew had those guys balling...

I do have a history in basketball......Head Coaches aren't dictators and their word is bond. Most of the time rotations and strategy are discussed with upper management so everybody is on same page.

This helps FO asses their players, and also helps with strategic decisions, such as how to manage a guy you want to trade and keep him healthy vs. show-casing guys hoping to elevate their trade value.

It's a constant shell game of moving parts but good organizations are all on the same page. I don't think the Cavs were. Otherwise they would've seen the value in letting JR spread the court for Rose, and seen the value in letting IT stretch the court for Wade who loves mid-range.

Just the fact that we spent a month with Wade and Rose operating next to each-other makes me want to run head first into a brick wall. It's honestly shocking....
 
Wade was a cancer in the locker-room, so I think this discussion is moot.

LeBron seemed more locked in and genuinely happy when Wade was gone....I suspect because he was try to be an "alpha" on LeBron's team.

Crowder was a fucking disaster towards the end of his tenure here. I suppose if we live in this alternative universe, where he was no longer pouting and playing like he did in Utah (like he gave a shit), then sure....he was a possibly difference maker against GSW

......but seriously, Crowder's last 15 games......Cavs were 6-9 and Crowder was booty.

8.2 PPG, 3.2 REB, 1.0 AST, 0.8 STL, 0.3 BLK, 32.7 3PT% (17/52)

He only made more than 1 3PT FG in 5 of the 15 games....and only once made more than 2. This was coming off a SEASON where he averaged 2.2 makes per game over 72 games.

This question operates in a perfect world scenario that doesn't consider how far down these guys were dragging the team and locker-room.

I'd be far more inclined to bet the team would have been far too acidic heading to the playoffs with these dickheads still here. The guys brought in were maybe less talented to some degree but they at least were good teammates and contributed to a better locker-room dynamic.

I'm just banging the same drum....

What value does Crowder have on a Cavs team, coached by Ty Lue, that is 100% focused on pushing pace and outrunning the opposition?

That isn't Crowder's game.

So if you're trading for Jae Crowder, who actually played well in Utah, why are you forcing him into a system he doesn't fit well in?

I'm going to go awful cross reference here:

If you're the Jacksonville Jaguars who rely heavily on downhill, physical running attack, would you ever trade for Duke Johnson? Hell no....bad fit.

The Cavs made a good value trade IMO, but did an AWFUL job of implementing a system that made sense for their strengths. Instead of the organization creating a system around their player strengths, they tried forcing the players into a system that was a shitty fit for their skill-sets. It's really that simple.
 
I do have a history in basketball......Head Coaches aren't dictators and their word is bond. Most of the time rotations and strategy are discussed with upper management so everybody is on same page.

This helps FO asses their players, and also helps with strategic decisions, such as how to manage a guy you want to trade and keep him healthy vs. show-casing guys hoping to elevate their trade value.

It's a constant shell game of moving parts but good organizations are all on the same page. I don't think the Cavs were. Otherwise they would've seen the value in letting JR spread the court for Rose, and seen the value in letting IT stretch the court for Wade who loves mid-range.

Just the fact that we spent a month with Wade and Rose operating next to each-other makes me want to run head first into a brick wall. It's honestly shocking....
Were you a coach or did you play?
No, the Cavs were not on the same page..and I still find it interesting that when Drew took over they were much crisper in everything they did..what the heck happened?
As far as you running in that brick wall put Ty out in front of you.
I'm trailing you because the total lack of a real defensive scheme buries my mind.
 
Were you a coach or did you play?
No, the Cavs were not on the same page..and I still find it interesting that when Drew took over they were much crisper in everything they did..what the heck happened?
As far as you running in that brick wall put Ty out in front of you.
I'm trailing you because the total lack of a real defensive scheme buries my mind.

I worked for a college coaching staff in the ACC, interned at IMG for some of the best sports agents in the world, and still have some great contacts throughout sports.

Some of my best conatcts in sports these days has little to do with my history working in sports, but business contacts with guys still employed by "basketball". Whether it be NBA or college, or even AAU.

I've gotten some good insight into Bronny lately that is interesting. Just that he isn't even the #1 prospect on his own AAU team, and that they've protected him from playing the best of the best to keep his reputation up. With that said, all it takes is a quick growth spurt and the skills he has takes him to top notch....
 

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