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Dwight Howard Tracker

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With some players, it's just better to say no...

No matter how talented a guy can be, if their personalities are poison, what good will it do when the going gets rough?

And it's been the case many times.

  • Andrew Bynum started growing a horrible ego that reached its pinnacle when he left L.A. He was signed by us for one year and didn't even take a month of the regular season to be exiled from the team.
  • Larry Sanders managed to get a big contract signed, but fell off the wagon after making bad choices.
  • Metta World Peace speaks for himself, but in the opposite fashion; he couldn't get most of his shit together until he teamed with Kobe and Phil.
  • Dennis Rodman also started derailing before reaching Chicago and only lasted 3 years before losing whatever he had left personality-wise.
  • Chris Anderson couldn't make it far until bringing his tattooed @$$ to South Beach.
  • Rajon Rondo was kept in line with Boston's 3-headed goblin in the late 2000s, but hasn't been able to stick anywhere for a while.
It's just a sample of the destruction wrought by bad eggs when there's not enough authority within the team's structure.

Howard had (and still does to some extent) the talent to change a team's short term fortune. But only ~10% of the league's teams has the arsenal and management for keeping him in line.

The situation is hard to fix because he needs to be convinced to adapt. And he needs the right leadership and direction if he wants to become a real champ.

The Cavs really don't need him that badly. And as the Lakers have proven (time and time again), more abundance of talent doesn't mean it's a surefire solution (for winning)...

Whoever wants to take a flyer, good luck...
 
...Maybe.



Just to keep it real, he had no idea how old the chick was. And buying someone a plane ticket doesn't really cost that much when you put things into perspective. He maybe spent $500 between her flight and hotel room? Howard is a multi-millionaire. He makes that kind of money in a matter of minutes.

I don't think it's that big a deal, personally; really, I don't think that was anybody's business.



We really don't know what the situation is. We have these two reports, and they both could be feeding off the other.



But he has a legitimate complaint.

He's getting 8.3 FGA's this season, compared to say 13.4 over his last two seasons in Orlando. Let's assume he is grumbling about this, or his agent is; is that wrong? Howard was putting up ~21ppg/14rbs his last two years in Orlando.

If Houston made a pitch to him that if he left Los Angeles they would have him as a centerpiece, and they've never tried to make that work, then yes, he's got a legitimate complaint. Especially considering they seem to work better in small ball anyway, and the league is generally moving that direction.

He's 30 years old, and he's got one big contract left. I can understand if there is some sense of urgency in his camp to improve his numbers.

I totally understand where you're coming from, and I'm definitely not a Dwight Howard fan. But in this instance, if he's pissed about how he's being utilized in Houston, well, I would be too.

Unless he thought she was 15 or 16, NO. There is zero chance he didn't know better. C'mon. I'm not talking about the $500. I'm talking about flying a girl in from out of state that has multiple years left in HS.

If he thinks he is still the player he was in Orlando he is delirious. If you demand the ball like this you can't turn the ball over at the rate he does. He has the same # of turnovers as DRose this year. Sure he shoots 58%. But if the other team can force him to turn the ball over >20% of the time, put him on the line if he gets too deep, he just isn't an offensive threat.

He SHOULD be the pick man more than he is. But he hasn't been efficient enough to use as a post player.

I think Houson recognizes Capela has upside at his position, can deal with the open floor better and ISN'T going to be getting 30M/ this offseason, etc. I can easily see him getting dealt if Morey doesn't want him long term. And with only a few months before UFA, its not like he is going to break the bank. But I don't think Morey would consider TT's contract an asset at all. I can't imagine he lands in Cle. Its a big bet to put on a guy that just hasn't been up to the task for a number of years.
 
Unless he thought she was 15 or 16, NO. There is zero chance he didn't know better. C'mon. I'm not talking about the $500. I'm talking about flying a girl in from out of state that has multiple years left in HS.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying..

It's pretty well known that he didn't know how old she was, and looking at her you couldn't tell she was 16, and she readily admits he didn't know how old she was. If he thought she was 19, but she's really 16, I mean, who gives a fuck?

If he thinks he is still the player he was in Orlando he is delirious. If you demand the ball like this you can't turn the ball over at the rate he does. He has the same # of turnovers as DRose this year. Sure he shoots 58%. But if the other team can force him to turn the ball over >20% of the time, put him on the line if he gets too deep, he just isn't an offensive threat.

I'm not disagreeing with this at all.. But he's trying to suggest that he can do more, and if he believes he can, are you saying he should just accept his role and be quiet?

He SHOULD be the pick man more than he is. But he hasn't been efficient enough to use as a post player.

Agreed.

I think Houson recognizes Capela has upside at his position, can deal with the open floor better and ISN'T going to be getting 30M/ this offseason, etc. I can easily see him getting dealt if Morey doesn't want him long term. And with only a few months before UFA, its not like he is going to break the bank. But I don't think Morey would consider TT's contract an asset at all. I can't imagine he lands in Cle. Its a big bet to put on a guy that just hasn't been up to the task for a number of years.

Lol, I think all the talk of Howard in Cleveland is purely academic. There's literally no chance of that happening.

I do think Houston trades him though.. They'd be foolish not to.
 
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying..

It's pretty well known that he didn't know how old she was, and looking at her you couldn't tell she was 16, and she readily admits he didn't know how old she was. If he thought she was 19, but she's really 16, I mean, who gives a fuck?



I'm not disagreeing with this at all.. But he's trying to suggest that he can do more, and if he believes he can, are you saying he should just accept his role and be quiet?



Agreed.



Lol, I think all the talk of Howard in Cleveland is purely academic. There's literally no chance of that happening.

I do think Houston trades him though.. They'd be foolish not to.

You don't have any kids do you?

I don't care what he said. She looked 16. She acted 16. And he flew her in remarkably close to her 17th BDay (legal in Tx). I don't think it was an accident.

I'm saying when you are on a team that is struggling you do whatever you can to make the team better. He has been given touches. He hasn't proven he can make use of those touches, much less that he is deserving of even more. If he is at the bottom of this, then YES. It IS on him.

I actually think he is a better player than most around here. But I fully expect Hou to trade him. I wonder if Whiteside gets moved too.
 
You don't have any kids do you?

:chuckle: You could not be more off-base.

I'm a father of 3, my oldest child is my teenage daughter.

Do you have any kids?

I don't care what he said.

That's a weird thing to say...

If you don't care what he said or what she said, then you really don't care about the truth and seem to have an ax to grind on this issue more than anything else..

I'm not sure why it's any of our business who he is fucking if it was legal.

She looked 16.

Nah, you can't tell her apart from a 19 year old sophomore in college. There's no way you'd look at this chick and after she might have told you she's of age you'd think she wasn't.

She acted 16.

:chuckle: What?? How do you know this??

Besides, what is the difference between acting 16 and acting 18?

And he flew her in remarkably close to her 17th BDay (legal in Tx). I don't think it was an accident.

Both of them have said he didn't know how old she was... She wanted to see him on her birthday.. You're right, I don't think a girl wanting to see a guy she likes on her birthday is an accident.

I'm saying when you are on a team that is struggling you do whatever you can to make the team better. He has been given touches. He hasn't proven he can make use of those touches, much less that he is deserving of even more. If he is at the bottom of this, then YES. It IS on him.

This is definitely a more narrow viewpoint, from a team-oriented perspective; I think you're missing the player's perspective on this.

I'm saying that I can understand that from his perspective, it makes sense to attempt to drive up his value prior to becoming a free agent for his last big contract.

I actually think he is a better player than most around here. But I fully expect Hou to trade him. I wonder if Whiteside gets moved too.

I think both he and Whiteside will be traded.
 
:chuckle: You could not be more off-base.

I'm a father of 3, my oldest child is my teenage daughter.

Do you have any kids?



That's a weird thing to say...

If you don't care what he said or what she said, then you really don't care about the truth and seem to have an ax to grind on this issue more than anything else..

I'm not sure why it's any of our business who he is fucking if it was legal.



Nah, you can't tell her apart from a 19 year old sophomore in college. There's no way you'd look at this chick and after she might have told you she's of age you'd think she wasn't.



:chuckle: What?? How do you know this??

Besides, what is the difference between acting 16 and acting 18?



Both of them have said he didn't know how old she was... She wanted to see him on her birthday.. You're right, I don't think a girl wanting to see a guy she likes on her birthday is an accident.



This is definitely a more narrow viewpoint, from a team-oriented perspective; I think you're missing the player's perspective on this.

I'm saying that I can understand that from his perspective, it makes sense to attempt to drive up his value prior to becoming a free agent for his last big contract.



I think both he and Whiteside will be traded.

And you'd be cool with a 30 yr old guy flying her to Texas for a tryst? Sorry, I have too many 16 year old girls in the family to buy that. There is no way I buy a 30 yr old guy just "not knowing". Its one thing if they meet in a bar or club. Its another for her to look that young and get flown in for her first weekend of legal consent.

Otherwise I think we are probably on the same page.
 
And you'd be cool with a 30 yr old guy flying her to Texas for a tryst?

Err.. I wouldn't be cool with my daughter fucking with a basketball player period.. It wouldn't matter how old either of them were; that's typically a use and discard situation.

But to get to the point, if my 16 year old daughter was setting herself out to older guys, my primary concern would be for her and where her mind was at - what was driving her to do something so stupid?

Every father should understand that you can't chase off your daughter's boyfriends and think that's going to magically change her behavior. That starts at home, with proper rearing...

And to answer your question, however I might feel about it, I wouldn't want some guy to go to jail if my daughter was setting herself out and lying about her age. How does that solve the problem of failed parenting and a misguided kid?

Also, why didn't you answer my question? I answer yours..

Do you have kids? Do you have a teenage daughter?


Sorry, I have too many 16 year old girls in the family to buy that.

In the family? C'mon... :chuckle:

You asked me if I had kids.. Not if I happened to be related to teenagers.. I have teenagers "in the family" as well.. who doesn't?

There is no way I buy a 30 yr old guy just "not knowing".

Why?

Its one thing if they meet in a bar or club.

How'd they meet?

Its another for her to look that young and get flown in for her first weekend of legal consent.

She doesn't look that young to me.. She looks like if she were to say "I'm in my second year at USC, I'd say, okay.." I see way younger looking chicks all the time going to PCC near my house.. They're all adults.

You also keep saying flown in on the first weekend of legal consent instead of simply saying flown to Texas for her birthday.. She even says he didn't know, and he said he didn't know..

I think you're hung up on his choice in female companionship, which I think is a bit awkward. Who cares?

Otherwise I think we are probably on the same page.

Indeed.
 
Err.. I wouldn't be cool with my daughter fucking with a basketball player period.. It wouldn't matter how old either of them were; that's typically a use and discard situation.

But to get to the point, if my 16 year old daughter was setting herself out to older guys, my primary concern would be for her and where her mind was at - what was driving her to do something so stupid?

Every father should understand that you can't chase off your daughter's boyfriends and think that's going to magically change her behavior. That starts at home, with proper rearing...

And to answer your question, however I might feel about it, I wouldn't want some guy to go to jail if my daughter was setting herself out and lying about her age. How does that solve the problem of failed parenting and a misguided kid?

Also, why didn't you answer my question? I answer yours..

Do you have kids? Do you have a teenage daughter?




In the family? C'mon... :chuckle:

You asked me if I had kids.. Not if I happened to be related to teenagers.. I have teenagers "in the family" as well.. who doesn't?


Why?


She doesn't look that young to me.. She looks like if she were to say "I'm in my second year at USC, I'd say, okay.." I see way younger looking chicks all the time going to PCC near my house.. They're all adults.

You also keep saying flown in on the first weekend of legal consent instead of simply saying flown to Texas for her birthday.. She even says he didn't know, and he said he didn't know..

I think you're hung up on his choice in female companionship, which I think is a bit awkward. Who cares?

I have a son. And I have 4 nieces we spend a ton of time with and look after my kid.

I tend to think people think differently when you know first hand how immature 16 year old girls are. Perhaps not in your situation. To be fair, a 28 yr old is currently in jail for messing with the oldest of my nieces.

You appear to have a lot more faith in humanity than I do. If Dwight had known her age (and I think he did) and he bought that plane ticket when she was underage thats prison time. My experience with these things is that he wrote someone a check for her not to escalate the matter. But who knows. I just know its seedy as hell and I just wasn't going to be the last guy out on the limb defending him after all these years if that is the guy he is. He came into the league as a devoutly religious person and now has 8 kids by 8 women. And flies in girls who should be trying to get their drivers licenses'. That type of behavior belies a lack of character. And given that he has taken so many slings for a lack of character on the court, etc it seemed a fine time to stop supporting him. If you don't agree so be it. We all make our evaluations based on own experiences and priorities. It just seems to me that there isn't anyone left that he hasn't alienated in some fashion.
 
This is going off-topic, I think...

I have a son. And I have 4 nieces we spend a ton of time with and look after my kid.

But you understand that that's not the same as actually having and raising a daughter.. I get what you're saying, but.. surely you can see the difference?

Once I became a father to a little girl, I had to think about what that entailed. I've thought long and hard about how best to raise my daughter and what values I wanted to instill in her.

A sense of chastity is fine, but that's not enough.. Sexuality is a natural part of life, and relationships. I'd expect my daughter to know better than to reduce herself to a one-time fling with a guy because of his status; and if she didn't that would fall squarely on the both of us.

I tend to think people think differently when you know first hand how immature 16 year old girls are. Perhaps not in your situation.

I'm not sure what this means, but I wouldn't venture to guess that all people think any one way or another about a particular subject.

Some fathers smother their girls with unrealistic expectations that are often more damaging to them and their understanding of their own sexuality.

With regards to myself, I know exactly how immature 16 years are, and it's not just girls...

When I was 16, I lived on my own, had a full-time job, and had sex with different girls regularly. But maturity and age doesn't necessarily beget wisdom.
All of that aside, that doesn't mean a 16-year cannot consent to sex, and in most states that's considered legal. As someone who was having sex well before I was 16, I can't say as a 16-year old I was being raped by college students whom I'm sleeping with.

To be fair, a 28 yr old is currently in jail for messing with the oldest of my nieces.

...I can't speak to your individual situation, but if your niece is over 16 and "messing with" means just having sex, well, I obviously would have a different opinion on that than you.

Putting a guy in prison for having consensual sex is ridiculous. Putting a guy in prison for actual rape, or child rape (without consent) is completely different.

You appear to have a lot more faith in humanity than I do.

I think I've probably just lived a bit more life and I've seen a few things that changed my opinions from the moral rigidity that yours seem to express. And as I mentioned, I have a teenage daughter myself..

If Dwight had known her age (and I think he did) and he bought that plane ticket when she was underage thats prison time.

Both of them have said that he didn't know her age. Not sure what you know to state that he did. It's pretty obvious to me that he had no clue, since that was one of the things she lamented about ("he didn't even know my age")...

As far as "prison time," yeesh.. I'm not so sure as to why you'd be so quick to put a guy in prison for consensual sex for what would be an of-age girl. That's way overboard, imho..

If there was a 17-year old H.S. football player fucking a 28-year old actress, would you want that actress locked away in prison too?

Like, there's more important ways to spend tax payer dollars than locking up some guy for sticking his dick in a hot in the pants 17 year old. Who cares?

My experience with these things is that he wrote someone a check for her not to escalate the matter. But who knows.

Why would he bother without a legal settlement? I kind of doubt that, and I think that's more fiction than reality. She already put him on blast, I think that was all she had on him and it was over. She had her 15 minutes of fame, and life moves on.

Remember James Franco? Nothing happens to these guys...

I just know its seedy as hell and I just wasn't going to be the last guy out on the limb defending him after all these years if that is the guy he is.

I hear you...

He came into the league as a devoutly religious person and now has 8 kids by 8 women.

Isn't that his business and no one else's though? I mean really, who cares about his religion?

The religious people I've known in my life have been among the most amoral individuals I've ever known. I also don't understand why anyone cares how many women he's impregnated?

They all had the option to use condoms, they had the option of getting a pill, taking a shot, or getting an abortion. They chose to have unprotected sex without contraception and then carry those children to term.

Does that make Howard a scum bag for continually knocking chicks up? It might.. But what does it make the chick who was on her back, 5th, 6th, 7th, etc in line?

It's a two way street.. Who is the victim here? The children? Why didn't the future mothers take that into consideration before breaking off some ass for Dwight? Not to say that he's not partially responsible, but I do think there's some financial motivation and incentive there as well - among other things ("I want a baby by a basketball player").

And flies in girls who should be trying to get their drivers licenses'.

If I was 17 and someone like Scarlett Johansen says to me "I'm going to fly you to Los Angeles, we'll get a room, and we'll have a great time.." I'm going to say "Fucking A! OMFG, yes!" I don't think this is any different.

That type of behavior belies a lack of character.

The having numerous children bit, yes, I'm with you with respect to character.

Flying in a girl whom you might think is 19? No, I have no problem with that at all... So what? I'm not sure why he'd do it, but if that's his taste then so be it..

And given that he has taken so many slings for a lack of character on the court, etc it seemed a fine time to stop supporting him. If you don't agree so be it.

I don't support Howard and never have.

We all make our evaluations based on own experiences and priorities. It just seems to me that there isn't anyone left that he hasn't alienated in some fashion.

Meh... I wouldn't worry about him man, he's rolling in dough and liable to sign another max deal. He'll be fine, and frankly he's not worth either our time.

We've gone way off-topic here, just thought I'd offer my views as someone who is seeing this from a very different vantage point.
 
Thought this was a good article--

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dwight-howard-has-transformed-the-hawks/

Horford bolted for the Celtics over the summer, taking with him the unique passing and mobility he provides at the center position. He was replaced by Dwight Howard, who is a totally different player from a stylistic standpoint even if he’s a surefire Hall of Famer. The Hawks, who for years lived on ball movement and swiftness, seem to be replacing those virtues with brute strength.
 

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