First, it seems you're calling media outlets "mainstream" that, I don't think are. I would never call The Daily Show the "Mainstream Media." The Daily Show practically invented the modern form of alternative news media.
Regarding Teen Vogue, or MTV, I'm not sure about either, dunno really what's on either; but wouldn't call them the MSM either.
Celebrities are people, they're voters... they aren't outlets, they use outlets.
Universities are not media outlets; they're places for learning. Universities trend strongly liberal, and have for hundreds of years because they are places of education, thought, rationality, and reason. This is to say, again doing away with false equivalence for just a moment, that the more educated a person is, the more liberal they are likely to be. Intellectuals, scholars, and learned people are generally those found within liberal circles; even if those liberal circles are ideologically radicalized. I'm not saying what is right or wrong here, just, pointing out what has historically been the case.
This gets us to Fox News... Fox News is the opposite of what you'll find at a university. Fox News is truly an echochamber of propaganda, ignorance, and enforced stupidity. But the Fox News model is not original; Clear Channel started this decades ago, buying up conservative talk radio stations/shows and filling the AM airwaves with right wing propaganda.
washington post, huffington post, ive been following them and their writers. and teen vogue's. i have read their stories. they have just as much a bias as fox news, its just presented differently. Human T tip alluded to it below, and Noam Chomsky (oddly) agrees that there is an indoctrination of the youth, and general public, and that all media is propaganda.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-34w0OUIOyw
I frankly encourage everyone to watch the entire clip. Starting at minute 1 and going to minute 10 is the most important. I believe 8 minutes in he briefly mentions his beliefs on how indoctrination is accomplished (doesnt expound because he’s being (..somewhat) polite to the reporter in front of him), and the filter that we've developed.
you cant say theres no bias, you admit there is. you just attribute it to their education. thats a chicken/egg endeavor. whats causation in continuing education? which came first, the indoctrination or education? or the job writing for 95% of media outlets? im sure neither of us read teen vogue or watch mtv, but theyre absolutely left leaning.
We can argue about if a news source is mainstream enough, or we can discuss the preponderance of left leaning sources vs. Right.. I will argue the left reaches a considerably larger amount of people with a considerably larger amount of sources. Where is the right’s version of mtv? Teen vogue? Daily show? All placed on the same network.. The right simply has nowhere near as much grip and range as the left, regarding media. they have outlets on every single demographic and gender, and all outlets are biased and editorialized.
Surely you’ve heard claims about the left being out of touch.. snl, a largely left leaning program until the election woke them up, made its second ever joke at the expense of barack obama in 8 years, mentioning “obama made a statement that democrats are falsely characterized as coastal liberal latte sipping out of touch folks.. Then he grabbed a salted caramel mocha-chino and hopped on a private jet to hawaii.
They have also had skits premised on the idea that the left is living in a bubble, and a showcase of new technology: robots who are perfect employees.. and are also gay. Casey Affleck asks the presenter why they said they were gay and eat accused of being homophobic. He explained he just didn't know why it was necessary to point out, and then asked if he was being homophobic, sincerely. The people around him said they didn't want to touch this one, because of the potential shaming of being called homophobic. The robots continue to say how gay they are.
Demonstrative of the over reach of progressiveness.
fox news IS propaganda. so are all the rest. they are all part of echo chambers. none of them provides a balanced view. celebrities are absolutely outlets. Dems used them aggressively this campaign.
education - the gap really isnt that wide. 10% difference i think?
unedcuated black people pretty consistently vote democrat. obviously, there are other wrinkles to consider.
lets be honest, ALL media is bought and paid for, hire writers who fit their ideals etc. Bought by who? with what purpose? the new york times is the position of the left elite, the washington post is jeff bezos personal blog and 600m went to him from the cia, for participation with amazon (which is awful, for an entirely different set of reasons).
I'm not sure what you mean when you say conservatives are more "pragmatic" when it comes to equal rights issues; that seems counterfactual, to say the leasover two centuries. So to call this pragmatism, when it often means outright opposition ultimately leading to discrimination, I find, quite hard to understand.
thats up to personal opinion. A white student needs to score 300 some odd points higher on their SAT's to have an equal shot as a black person, and asians need even higher scores. that is discrimination against other races. are welfare programs really the best idea for people? i've been on unemployment, and food stamps. my answer is no. i do believe theres a job for anyone, that pays well. life is an open book test, and everyone is able to find the answers they need.
In addition, nothing should be "inflammatory" about equal rights; and why wouldn't you point to such differentiation in an effort to garner votes?? Isn't that what campaigning is supposed to be about? To identify the differences between your party and theirs?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. The Great Society and Lyndon Johnson moved forward the Civil Rights Act and that cost the Democrats the South for the past 50 years. Furthermore, it is not as though Dixiecrats and right-wing Goldwater Republicans during this era did themselves any favors with African-Americans... To argue that the Civil Rights Act was just an attempt to get votes is ... an incorrect assessment of history.
'we'll have the niggers voting democrat for the next 200 years!" and johnson's "N***** bill" sound gross to me. i understand your point, im saying shit sounds dubious and I dont trust politicians.
theres nothing inflammatory about equal rights, but you and I both are aware of the presence provocateurs. BLM is taking donations, just like charities do. Q expanded below.. i question things, and the intent to capitalize on most people's innate sense of 'being a good person' and wishes for equality. everything has a ripple effect. republicans are thought of as the racist group, so surely some jarring shit will push people to the left, along with the general idea that 'im not a racist, i must be a democrat'. i think thats underdeveloped.
I am aware of your opinions on black lives matter. I don’t see it like you do. I see it as race baiting and an overstep. I see sharpton and jesse jackson. I see morgan freeman’s thoughts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0p_pQ7PTYU
I’ve seen your thoughts on black conservatives and how they must be confused to hold that opinion. “they are guilty of the kind of racism that suggests all black people must think the same. It deligitimizes and belittles people and puts them in a box. if you believe in the civil rights struggle matters at all, and if you believe blacks should have their voices heard and have an equal footing, and if you believe in the goal that every black person has the right to a voice, hear mine.”
Things have changed gour. The republicans today are not republicans of yesterday. Social issues are not yesterdays social issues. Things develop, theyre fluid.
A study? On what specifically? The effect of progressivism causing neoreactionary opinions to form? I don't think any such study has been done.. But that's kind of the point I just made -- there is literally no evidence of this reactionary anti-progressive movement outside of the realm of people who are either now, or have historically been, anti-progressive..
im assuming you have anecdotal stories, just like I do...theres no study on it. i imagine you've spoken with lots of people, lately, about this. if not, I have, i am a person whose friends are almost exclusively black, and have been pushed away by neoprogressive development. black lives matter isnt martin luther king's movement. there are obvious differences between the waves of feminism. logically, you have to see that this has an impact on people and that there are probably a good amount of people that are turned off by movements that start off good on paper and stretch.
feminists today are not feminists. they dont want equal rights. they hate white males. feminism in its true sense, is great. but its no longer about equality. its there. yes, i have statistics, the real ones.
Is this really a thing though? Sexist anti-sexist movements? I mean, we've seen the memes of some radical feminist, but do you not recognize that these kinds of folks have existed since the universal suffrage movement?
The existence of bad people does not sour an entire movement; nor does the pointing out that bad people exist in the world mean that we cannot rationally take on ethical arguments pertaining to issues of equality and social justice on various topics like race, gender, or sexual orientation.
the existence of bad people DOES sour an entire movement, especially if the traditional progressives dont denounce that shit. if they identify as part of the movement, theyre simply part of the movement.. we can (we cant actually) get into how many of each movement believe what, but the radicals are pretty fucking vocal and abundant. vitriol for 'white male privilege’ is something ive heard and seen from an uncountable amount of people. its huffpo's calling card, along with its readers. ive discussed politics with millenials and whatever the fuck is younger than millenials, and I hear a lot of the same shit. enough of it to have a problem with how things have turned out.
young people are eating this up, especially if theyre not white or male.
How are you a progressive, Dave?
I've never known you to ever say anything that would remotely sound progressive?
We've had many conversations about things kinds of topics, and you've never once struck me as either a liberal or a progressive in the slightest; in fact, did you not say you've only recently gotten into politics?
i have. my indoctrination made me inherently believe I was liberal. I actually disagreed with YOU about trans people being able to be allowed into bathrooms. I initially fought for the idea that people should be able to classify themselves as whatever gender they want, and to abolish the construct altogether.
theres 31 fucking genders today. Out of touch, overreached.
The professor you're referring to was making a joke about the "White Genocide" nonsense that's floating around on the internet -- he was not actually wishing for a White Genocide, and has said as much.
he said it was satire, whihch is a load of shit. look at the rest of the drexel professors tweets. hes awful.
Why on Earth would this be meaningful to you in any way shape or form?
Why would a dumbass existing somewhere in the aether literally affect your worldview or ideological position?
my core principles revolve around not bullying others, and not abusing power, and not manipulating people. it effects it. its consistent with the rest of the body of evidence that I stated upthread.
Think about what you're saying here: you're literally defining yourself as a reactionary... the very group you're saying is being lost due to progressives appeal to social progress (which, is the basis of the progressive movement).
there comes a point where progress has been made enough, and bastardization of core concepts run too high. at that point, I abandon the movement, because its no longer the movement. now im left to hold my positiion quietly, because radicals are too loud and abundant. i dont want their candidate to win. I dont want to hear about all the things ive done from everyone, including white males and white females. If you havent heard of social justice warriors and the extreme opposition and their points, then you hold an out of touch belief.
You're confident that these crazy people are representative of who has the power? How have you come to this conclusion? I've worked in politics my entire adult life, I would put to you that I think you're pretty far from the truth...
im confident that those in power (academia, media) are biased. we've discussed that upthread. im not speaking about politicians.
Why shouldn't an accounting professor talk about the wage gap? Is that inappropriate? It's a college campus.... Are you really suggesting that your classroom be a safe space for accounting topics only?
safe space? lol no. thats not what a safe space is. i abhor the idea that someone responsible for molding a mind throws out propaganda in a science class, and are wrong on it. i dont like manipulation, I dont like bullying, I dont like neoprogressivism. if nothing else, thats unprofessiona. Im there to learn about financial systems, not incorrect propaganda thats going to influence people to hate me for being a dude. These movements are no longer based on facts but propaganda. Their talking points are misinformation. Things have changed.
And if your professor was misinformed, did you let him know? Did you try to debate the topic with him in private? I used to LOVE debating with my professors over ideological or political differences, at least, those that were open to such conversations (some weren't) -- hell, I learned how to debate (really debate) in college, particularly the fundamentals of truly structured logical and critical reasoning.
i was shocked by it. was not ready for it. and only had a general grasp of the statistics and didnt want to be humiliated (he literally had an affinity for doing so) and graded subjectively by an absolute asshole professor with tenure. ive had to deal with enough of those pepole at SDSU. by the way, i was graded on my beliefs last semester.
No, I make no assumptions -- I'm asking..
But, you've now just said you're a moderate. A moment ago you said you were a progressive. Those two things are rarely if ever compatible. Centrist/moderates != progressives...
you can absolutely be in the middle and be progressive. everythings a spectrum on a spectrum, or inside a spectrum, normally both. By this sentiment, you cant be a libertarian socialist.. the labeling is pernicious to poli sci, it serves benefit just as much as 31 genders does. I hold certain beliefs and labeling and expanding taxonomy is counterproductive, I just have the beliefs I do, and they don’t need to be consistent in every capacity on every subject in the spectrum of less vs. more government, and I can see myself as a progressive and you can see yourself as a progressive and that means something different to both of us.
You think progressives who, are by and large (massively) White want White people dead? You can't be serious bro, c'mon.... You're really buying this "White Genocide" nonsense?
You then tell me that someone wants your "race" to die; and then you're telling me that you've been personally blamed for all the ills of the world...
By the way, this is all getting pretty close to the idea of me telling you what black people feel is false. Im telling you what I see and how I feel and youre discrediting it and delegitimizing it. Similarly, you would call it racist or bigoted if I said anything like the things youre implying about black people who disagree with you, and about what I feel is a growing attack on white males.
None of those things are accurate depictions of reality, let alone progressivism. Progressives don't blame YOU individually for shit... You're Dave K, who the fuck is blaming you for anything???
If I say black people are to blame for the downfall of society, or any generalized, negative thing, you would absolutely feel the same thing as I do.
Anyways, I can tell you almost half my exes spouted off on sexist shit like voting in a person because shes female, while quoting beyonce, or posting a meme saying 'white guys shouldnt tell black people how to feel or how to express it'. the hypocrisy and misuse of sexism and racism is incredible. THATS what this has become.
It's actually none of those things... you may or may not get behind it, but I've been a progressive for quite some time and I'm neither an extremist, a racist, or a sexist. I have no idea how you've come to this conclusion but, I'd be happy to guide you back out of it.
Republicans are saying theyre not racist. Im saying im not a racist. Yet progressives inherently racialize everything. That is by definition, racism. Its just been positive, until the last couple of years.
bro, im facebook friends with 700 people, mostly comprised of millenials from california, and ohio. ive.. done my homework on the current pulse. them, to reddit, to youtube, to media and their followers. i read it all. consider that there is a new wave. its obvious youve been at this longer, but things change. consider it. im well read and up to speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxrsbjlRHrM
This is mainstream media, this is sexist and racist under guise of progressiveness.
Again, you're not talking about progressivism, you're talking about a handful of people you've read about or interacted with...
It is by no means ‘a handful’. Ive done nothing but research and communicate politics for the last month.
Muhammad ali, painfully, told william buckley for every 1 white person that thinks they are equal to each other, 5,000 want to kill him.
its incredible how things can change.
But, we were talking about progressivism; not the Democratic Party, right? Those two things are very very different.
yes they are. which is why i can be a progressive and not align with the democratic party, who largely gets votes from progressives, which pushes me away from giving them what they want.
Again, I'm not sure how you come to these conclusions... Being a "lib" looks great on paper? What paper? Who is reading this paper?
lol all papers that aren't brietbart, stormfront or transcripts from fox news, and are read by everybody.
q explained in his post. i find it hard to believe that ideals presented throughout our development, by the people by which they are presented, would lead most people to be republican. they are the people who also inform us on what each party represents, in their own words. q said the rest perfectly, i dont need to add anything else.
