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Do Not Sell My Personal Information
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David.

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Don't want to spam the trump thread with irrelevant stuff.


I'm trying to learn more about the connection with Howard hunt, bay of pigs, Nixon, Kennedy etc...

I have horrible adhd. Some documentaries work, but Charlie Wilson's war was a good movie that served as catalyst for research.

Is there anything on bay of pigs that I can watch? Good Shepard failed, thirteen days failed.
 
These are topics I've spent years researching.. I've read a great number of books on the Eisenhower-Kennedy-Nixon era; I find that period of Presidential history to be fascinating!

I don't think you'll get much out of movies per se. The movie 'Nixon' with Anthony Hopkins was a great film, but it's not entirely historically accurate. I would definitely not recommend you watch these movies as indicators or cliff notes of actual history. They're just for entertainment.
 
I have not read Killing Kennedy. However, I have read killing Patton and Killing Lincoln, and whatever tge war in the pacific one was called..I found all 3 to be readable and thoroughly researched.

I am also ADHD.. Coffee helps, but if yours is worse you might try meditation or prayer before you start your day. Not a big fan of the ADHD meds..

If you can't stay with the book. It was also made into a TV film that got 56% on rotten tomatoes.

I personally think movies are more tilted to the directors POV..
 
I liked the VICE documentary - A House Divided. I didn't remember a lot of what was going on when Obama took over, and things that went on in Congress in his beginning.

Can someone give some more documentaries that would be good to watch? Im no political expert, so basic ones are fine. Id like to learn more historically about the two party system and how it came to form.
 
Id like to learn more historically about the two party system and how it came to form.

I think that's less about history, and more about political science. In other words, it is the structure of our political/electoral system - a first past the post presidential system - that makes us tend towards only two major parties.

It's possible for particular issues - particularly those tied to regionalism - to give a temporary boost to a third party. But generally, two parties will dominate.

There's a French guy named Duverger who wrote about it.
 
http://www.wanttoknow.info/plottoseizethewhitehouse.shtml
by Jules Archer 1973.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

I am deeply indebted first and foremost to the immediate family of the late Major General Smedley D. Butler-daughter Mrs. Ethel Peters Wehle and sons Smedley Butler, Jr. and Thomas Richard Butler-for their generous cooperation; for use of the general's private and military papers, scrapbooks, memorabilia, recordings, and photos; and for vivid personal recollections of their father.

Sincere gratitude is also expressed to the following persons and institutions for their contributions to my research:

Former Speaker of the House of Representatives John W. McCormack, who headed the McCormack-Dickstein Committee and who answered all my questions about the hearings he held during which General Butler testified about the conspiracy.

General David M. Shoup, retired commandant of the United States Marine Corps, who served under General Butler in China and who shared some of his reminiscences with me.

George Seldes, whose newsletter In Fact and books 1000 Americans and Facts and Fascism gave me my first inklings of the conspiracy many years ago and who generously helped me with my research efforts.

John L. Spivak, former foreign correspondent for International News Service, who rendered invaluable cooperation by answering all my questions and generously permitting me to quote from his own fascinating reminiscences, A Man in His Time, in which he relates how he was able to thwart efforts to suppress important names involved in the conspiracy.


xi

xiiAcknowledgements


Senator Job Javits and Representative Hamilton Fish, Jr., who assisted me in obtaining copies of the testimony at the conspiracy hearings of the McCormack-Dickstein Committee.

E. Z. Dimitman, former executive editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer and close friend of General Butler's, who shared his reminiscences of the general.

Jerry Doyle, Philadelphia Daily News staff artist, who helped me locate old friends of the general's.

Jesse Laventhol, Philadelphia newsman, confidant, and press secretary for the general's Senate campaign, now retired, who explained some of the behind-the-scenes political factors.

Tom O'Neil, former city editor of the Philadelphia Record at the time of the conspiracy, who helped put some of the pieces of the puzzle together.

William J. Stewart, Acting Director, National Archives and Records Service, Franklin D. Roosevelt Library, who guided me through the Roosevelt papers in locating material pertaining to General Butler and helped me identify sources.

Mary Schutz and Charlotte Wright, of the Mid-Hudson Library System, Poughkeepsie, New York, who obtained for me rare and hard-to-get research on the conspiracy from universities and public libraries all over the East Coast; James Brock, Ethel Tornapore, and Jane McGarvey, of Adriance Library in Poughkeepsie; the Starr Institute Library, Rhinebeck, New York; Neda M. Westlake, Curator, Rare Book Collection, Charles Patterson Van Pelt Library, University of Pennsylvania; and Mary Lou Alm, of the Pine Plains, New York, Library.

Colonel F. C. Caldwell, U.S. Marine Corps (retired), director of Marine Corps History, Historical Division, who gave me valuable research leads and provided me with helpful articles and public records from Marine Corps sources.

Warrant Officer D. R. Aggers, U.S. Marine Corps, Head, Administrative Section, Director of Information, for providing certain Marine Corps photos of General Butler.

Catholic University of America, Washington, D.C., which permitted me to study a 1962 master's thesis in library science by Eunice M. Lyon, The Unpublished Papers of Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, United States Marine Corps: a

Acknowledgementsxiii

Calendar, based on files turned over by the Butler family to the Marine Corps.

Robert B. Pitkin, editor, American Legion Magazine, who gave me statistical information about past Legion commanders.

Donald R. McCoy, historian, University of Kansas, for granting permission to quote from his book, Coming of Age: The United States During the 1920's and 1930's.

Assistant Professor Dane Archer, of the University of California, Santa Cruz, who originally researched the conspiracy for me eight years ago in old newspaper files at Yale University's Sterling Library.

My wife, Eleanor E. Archer, who aided me in interviews with Speaker McCormack, General Shoup, and General Butler's family as well as serving as adviser, critic, indexer, and proofreader.

Time magazine, for permission to quote from its article, "Plot Without Plotters," December 3, 1934.

Susan Berkowitz and Joan Nagy, whose brilliant editorial help aided me in sifting and organizing the elements in this book to let what remained stand out like gold dust in a prospecting pan.
 
http://www.wanttoknow.info/plottoseizethewhitehouse.shtml
by Jules Archer 1973.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

I am deeply indebted first and foremost to the immediate family of the late Major General Smedley D. Butler-daughter Mrs. Ethel Peters Wehle and sons Smedley Butler, Jr. and Thomas Richard Butler-for their generous cooperation; for use of the general's private and military papers, scrapbooks, memorabilia, recordings, and photos; and for vivid personal recollections of their father.

Sincere gratitude is also expressed to the following persons and institutions for their contributions to my research:

Former Speaker of the House of Representatives John W. McCormack, who headed the McCormack-Dickstein Committee and who answered all my questions about the hearings he held during which General Butler testified about the conspiracy.

General David M. Shoup, retired commandant of the United States Marine Corps, who served under General Butler in China and who shared some of his reminiscences with me.

George Seldes, whose newsletter In Fact and books 1000 Americans and Facts and Fascism gave me my first inklings of the conspiracy many years ago and who generously helped me with my research efforts.

John L. Spivak, former foreign correspondent for International News Service, who rendered invaluable cooperation by answering all my questions and generously permitting me to quote from his own fascinating reminiscences, A Man in His Time, in which he relates how he was able to thwart efforts to suppress important names involved in the conspiracy.


xi

xiiAcknowledgements


Senator Job Javits and Representative Hamilton Fish, Jr., who assisted me in obtaining copies of the testimony at the conspiracy hearings of the McCormack-Dickstein Committee.

E. Z. Dimitman, former executive editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer and close friend of General Butler's, who shared his reminiscences of the general.

Jerry Doyle, Philadelphia Daily News staff artist, who helped me locate old friends of the general's.

Jesse Laventhol, Philadelphia newsman, confidant, and press secretary for the general's Senate campaign, now retired, who explained some of the behind-the-scenes political factors.

Tom O'Neil, former city editor of the Philadelphia Record at the time of the conspiracy, who helped put some of the pieces of the puzzle together.

William J. Stewart, Acting Director, National Archives and Records Service, Franklin D. Roosevelt Library, who guided me through the Roosevelt papers in locating material pertaining to General Butler and helped me identify sources.

Mary Schutz and Charlotte Wright, of the Mid-Hudson Library System, Poughkeepsie, New York, who obtained for me rare and hard-to-get research on the conspiracy from universities and public libraries all over the East Coast; James Brock, Ethel Tornapore, and Jane McGarvey, of Adriance Library in Poughkeepsie; the Starr Institute Library, Rhinebeck, New York; Neda M. Westlake, Curator, Rare Book Collection, Charles Patterson Van Pelt Library, University of Pennsylvania; and Mary Lou Alm, of the Pine Plains, New York, Library.

Colonel F. C. Caldwell, U.S. Marine Corps (retired), director of Marine Corps History, Historical Division, who gave me valuable research leads and provided me with helpful articles and public records from Marine Corps sources.

Warrant Officer D. R. Aggers, U.S. Marine Corps, Head, Administrative Section, Director of Information, for providing certain Marine Corps photos of General Butler.

Catholic University of America, Washington, D.C., which permitted me to study a 1962 master's thesis in library science by Eunice M. Lyon, The Unpublished Papers of Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, United States Marine Corps: a

Acknowledgementsxiii

Calendar, based on files turned over by the Butler family to the Marine Corps.

Robert B. Pitkin, editor, American Legion Magazine, who gave me statistical information about past Legion commanders.

Donald R. McCoy, historian, University of Kansas, for granting permission to quote from his book, Coming of Age: The United States During the 1920's and 1930's.

Assistant Professor Dane Archer, of the University of California, Santa Cruz, who originally researched the conspiracy for me eight years ago in old newspaper files at Yale University's Sterling Library.

My wife, Eleanor E. Archer, who aided me in interviews with Speaker McCormack, General Shoup, and General Butler's family as well as serving as adviser, critic, indexer, and proofreader.

Time magazine, for permission to quote from its article, "Plot Without Plotters," December 3, 1934.

Susan Berkowitz and Joan Nagy, whose brilliant editorial help aided me in sifting and organizing the elements in this book to let what remained stand out like gold dust in a prospecting pan.

Not that this has anything to do with anything, but Smedley's is my favorite watering hole in Cleveland.
 
Jules Archer has many books on Watergate, the phillipines and other works done with extensive research. supported by public record, Memoirs and first hand accounts when possible or records handed down to the families invoved in whatever he was writing about.


The New deal has a huge impact on politics today. If anyone wants a true understanding of politics today.. 1933 is a good place to start.
 
These are topics I've spent years researching.. I've read a great number of books on the Eisenhower-Kennedy-Nixon era; I find that period of Presidential history to be fascinating!

I don't think you'll get much out of movies per se. The movie 'Nixon' with Anthony Hopkins was a great film, but it's not entirely historically accurate. I would definitely not recommend you watch these movies as indicators or cliff notes of actual history. They're just for entertainment.
Bro, are you under the impression that I take moviesmessages without a grain of salt considering my opinion on the media? Lol

I have to find fuses to ignite research. I understand the premise of agenda.

Books are also entertainment and are subject to just as much bias. History books don't tell the whole story. I get it
 
Bro, are you under the impression that I take moviesmessages without a grain of salt considering my opinion on the media? Lol

I have to find fuses to ignite research. I understand the premise of agenda.

Books are also entertainment and are subject to just as much bias. History books don't tell the whole story. I get it

I'm.. not saying the movies have agendas; in fact, most of them don't. I'm simply saying that you'll get a great deal of misinformation -- not due to bias -- but due to how films are made.
 
I'm.. not saying the movies have agendas; in fact, most of them don't. I'm simply saying that you'll get a great deal of misinformation -- not due to bias -- but due to how films are made.
guarantee you occupation 101 has an agenda, it's a documentary, and it doesn't cut corners or fall victim of misinformation due to structure or story telling.

And then you can watch Munich and hear a conversation between an Israeli and Palestinian to hear a pretty accurate argument between some of it's peoples on the matter.

And I learned what a sabra is!

Lol

They're all tools.
 
guarantee you occupation 101 has an agenda, it's a documentary, and it doesn't cut corners or fall victim of misinformation due to structure or story telling.

I'm not really referring to documentaries which typically have narratives and "agendas" almost by definition these days.

And then you can watch Munich and hear a conversation between an Israeli and Palestinian to hear a pretty accurate argument between some of it's peoples on the matter.

Just to be clear, the conversation between the Palestinian and Israeli in Munich is not remotely an accurate representation of the Palestinian case.. The Israeli case is much more complex and varied; there is no universality of opinion within Israel regarding the conflict.

And I learned what a sabra is!

Lol

They're all tools.

Whatever works bro...
 
I'm not really referring to documentaries which typically have narratives and "agendas" almost by definition these days.



Just to be clear, the conversation between the Palestinian and Israeli in Munich is not remotely an accurate representation of the Palestinian case.. The Israeli case is much more complex and varied; there is no universality of opinion within Israel regarding the conflict.



Whatever works bro...

I guarantee you Oliver Stone has an agenda. I guarantee you thirteen days had an agenda to paint Kennedy in a good light.

Yes, I said some of its people's. I'm aware there are differing opinions. I learned that from occupation 101 and from common sense.

You feel it's unrealistic for someone from Israel to have the opinion being discussed in Munich? Why?
 
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I guarantee you Oliver Stone has an agenda.

Of course he does.

I guarantee you thirteen days had an agenda to paint Kennedy in a good light.

Wait what? Where did you get that idea from?

What other light would you paint Kennedy in given the setting/scenario, and how does painting him in a positive light qualify as an "agenda?"

You feel it's unrealistic for someone from Israel to have the opinion being discussed in Munich? Why?

I don't feel it's unrealistic for someone (as in a person) to have such an opinion; I'm saying that the scene is not representative of the consensus opinions on either side of the occupation - particularly not with respect to the Palestinians.
 
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