How did we lose? An argument for no big changes.

[mhi]

I with this.Let's just worry about what we need to fix internally and how we can get better and the rest of it will take care of itself.

 

[DapperDan]

Would love a swap of TT, Shump and pieces for DeAndre Jordan and Patrick Beverly. Unlikely since Clips would have no point guard. I'm sure Khloe wouldn't mind it though.

 

[RyanStackAttack]

I don't think all is lost if they stand pat. This team was erratic and sloppy last year but the tools are there to beat anybody in the NBA in a 7-game series.

Lue needs to assert himself and force feed the defensive schemes/habits that made him such a hot coaching candidate. The front office needs to add the ancillary parts to help him achieve that goal. (GM/vision would help) LeBron needs to be accountable defensively and set the tone so the rest of the team falls in line. Kyrie too.

 

[godfather]

Would love a swap of TT, Shump and pieces for DeAndre Jordan and Patrick Beverly. Unlikely since Clips would have no point guard. I'm sure Khloe wouldn't mind it though.

The Clippers would laugh us off the phone.

Beverly is on a bargain contract. He's going nowhere; unless it's for a high draft pick.

No way they take on Shumpert's contract, compared to Beverly's.

I think TT, Cedi, and 2021st pick for Jordan is possible, depending on what direction the Clippers go.

If they re-sign Blake; then it's off. They are going to try to compete and keep Jordan.

 

[sleepmaster]

I don't think all is lost if they stand pat. This team was erratic and sloppy last year but the tools are there to beat anybody in the NBA in a 7-game series.

Lue needs to assert himself and force feed the defensive schemes/habits that made him such a hot coaching candidate. The front office needs to add the ancillary parts to help him achieve that goal. (GM/vision would help) LeBron needs to be accountable defensively and set the tone so the rest of the team falls in line. Kyrie too.

A coach has to pick his battles better than that. Forcing it may not work since the team as a group may feel Lebron more than pulls his own weight, such that they understand why he takes defensive plays off is in the best interest of the team given the alternatives.

 

[RyanStackAttack]

A coach has to pick his battles better than that. Forcing it may not work since the team as a group may feel Lebron more than pulls his own weight, such that they understand why he takes defensive plays off is in the best interest of the team given the alternatives.

I agree. LeBron can only do so much. He's engaged when it counts. Not all the players on the roster can say that.

I guess my point on the coaching side was that this recently-assistant coach needs to show he can run the program as the head guy. He's had a lot of success all of a sudden but maybe let the reins go way too loose on the championship hangover.

Lue's forte is defense and he's been given an offensive-heavy group of players. Some of these guys have defensive ability that is not tapped largely on effort. They aren't LeBron but they see him take plays off and think they can too.

Lue/LeBron need to toe the line of not burning LBJ out but also not let everyone else feel like they can do the same.

 

[6.19.2016]

1st post -lets talk about why we lost with no major changes.

3rd post -lets make a major change.

OP saying no "major" change in this context I think means keeping the Big 3 intact, keeping a lot of the rest of the team intact, and no Melo or PG level additions. Trading TT and basically only TT can fall under that category.

I agree with the sentiment that we really are that far off - Game 3 being close or not, or even Game 5 being close-ish or not, I'm not convinced we could've won in 7 more or even made it to 7 more than 1/10 times this past season*, and that changes have to be wholesale in nature, starting with K-Love as much as I appreciate what he did the past 3 years, and including almost the entirety of the bench.

*I think we win each of 2015 and 2016 4 or 5 times out of 10, by the way; of course, we won 1 and lost 1 of the series that were actually played then, which is what mattered. I don't think 2016 was some sort of unrepeatable fluke sequence of events as many non-Clevelanders think - GSW chose to burn themselves out last year going for 73, Draymond suspension or not, and it was arguably a fluke that we were down 3-1 in the first place then; conversely, even if Kyrie made it through G1 in 2015 I'm not convinced that with homecourt the Dubs don't win in 7.

 

[inliner311]

The Clippers would laugh us off the phone.

Beverly is on a bargain contract. He's going nowhere; unless it's for a high draft pick.

No way they take on Shumpert's contract, compared to Beverly's.

I think TT, Cedi, and 2021st pick for Jordan is possible, depending on what direction the Clippers go.

If they re-sign Blake; then it's off. They are going to try to compete and keep Jordan.

I think we can get Beverley for Cedi and Frye if Blake leaves. I don't think they will move anyone if Blake stays. If Blake leaves, they will have to go into rebuild mode. Beverley is on a good contract but he will be 29 in a couple weeks. He isn't their long term answer at their starting point guard. Cedi gives them a young player to develop and Frye has enough value that someone will come calling for him.

The earlier they can move Lou Williams and Beverley, they might be able to get replacement in free agency. It kills two birds with one stone, getting assets and getting players to develop. If they wait they are just delaying their rebuild by a year, it will be just d-leaguers to pick from if they go with mid-season trades.

 

[MrX]

There are plenty of threads for making big sweeping changes to this team. I want to offer a thread for discussing an alternative perspective. This thread is for discussing how we fix our team without moving any of our big 3.

We had no problem staying with the Warriors offensively. The problem was getting consistent stops when we needed them and our transition defense.

We were two minutes away from tying the series at 2-2. If we had build our team with defensive players to balance out our offense, would that have brought us even closer? What could we do to not make big moves, and still improve the team? How would having our team set before training camp, and working on defense all season potentially change things for this team?

I don't think the sky is falling. I think we have a good team and a good coach. This tread is for brainstorming how we improve without making big changes.

Considering are starters outscored theirs last 3 games. Not only per game but per min and as you mentioned about game 3. Your spot on. Game 5 bench got outscored 37-9 doesn't leave any chance to win. Starters score 111 points and we lose. That's a problem

 

[chuck0609]

I don't think all is lost if they stand pat. This team was erratic and sloppy last year but the tools are there to beat anybody in the NBA in a 7-game series.

Lue needs to assert himself and force feed the defensive schemes/habits that made him such a hot coaching candidate. The front office needs to add the ancillary parts to help him achieve that goal. (GM/vision would help) LeBron needs to be accountable defensively and set the tone so the rest of the team falls in line. Kyrie too.

LBJ needs to be held accountable? This team can't hold a 10 point lead for two damn minutes without him on the floor. He played 38 goddam minutes a game last year and basically the entire games in the playoffs.
Hold LBJ accountable? He's the entire team.

 

[chuck0609]

Considering are starters outscored theirs last 3 games. Not only per game but per min and as you mentioned about game 3. Your spot on. Game 5 bench got outscored 37-9 doesn't leave any chance to win. Starters score 111 points and we lose. That's a problem

Got to find a way to allow LBJ to rest and keep leads.
The entire offseason focus should be to reduce his load.

 

[MarkPriceFan]

Got to find a way to allow LBJ to rest and keep leads.
The entire offseason focus should be to reduce his load.

Wade or Melo off the bench could help there. Then we need to sign some guys who can play d and play within a structured offense for the 2nd unit. It doesn't help much vs the Warriors though. About the only thing that help us there is a player like George who can slow Durant a little bit, while matching his offensive output.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Wade or Melo off the bench could help there. Then we need to sign some guys who can play d and play within a structured offense for the 2nd unit. It doesn't help much vs the Warriors though. About the only thing that help us there is a player like George who can slow Durant a little bit, while matching his offensive output.

This is part of the problem though. There's zero continuity. The offense is LeBron and Kyrie create, Love stands in the corner, JR stands on the wing, and TT sets screens and waits for rebounds. You take LeBron out of the equation and there's no system. The system should accelerate their talents, not be defined by them.

The issue was really driven home on one of the road trippin' podcasts. RJ was talking about the very different roles that he has as an SF vs what LeBron has. You're running two completely different systems. When the team doesn't practice very much, how can you expect them to effectively run two different offensive and defensive systems with any success?

GSW doesn't change their system when Durant and Curry sit. The Bulls didn't stop running the triangle when Jordan went to the bench. Ditto for the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe. You can go on and on. Were those teams as effective when their superstars sat? No. They also didnt hemmorhage points the second their superstar player(s) sat down.

 

[inliner311]

This is part of the problem though. There's zero continuity. The offense is LeBron and Kyrie create, Love stands in the corner, JR stands on the wing, and TT sets screens and waits for rebounds. You take LeBron out of the equation and there's no system. The system should accelerate their talents, not be defined by them.

The issue was really driven home on one of the road trippin' podcasts. RJ was talking about the very different roles that he has as an SF vs what LeBron has. You're running two completely different systems. When the team doesn't practice very much, how can you expect them to effectively run two different offensive and defensive systems with any success?

GSW doesn't change their system when Durant and Curry sit. The Bulls didn't stop running the triangle when Jordan went to the bench. Ditto for the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe. You can go on and on. Were those teams as effective when their superstars sat? No. They also didnt hemmorhage points the second their superstar player(s) sat down.

Doesn't bring in Melo actually solve some of the problems in our system. He can come in and take on LeBrons role with Kyrie and Love on the floor. Then you can use him like Love with LeBron and Kyrie on the floor, you might post him up more since he isn't as good of a shooter. Then you have a whole season to figure out all 4 of them on the floor together and experiment with a lineup of Lebron, Melo, Love, and two other guys either going small or real big.

 

[TitleTown]

Considering are starters outscored theirs last 3 games. Not only per game but per min and as you mentioned about game 3. Your spot on. Game 5 bench got outscored 37-9 doesn't leave any chance to win. Starters score 111 points and we lose. That's a problem

Exactly. Too many people are writing off our big 3, when I think we need to consider the lack of defensive mindset and culture. Our offense is as good as anyone's in the league. The problem is that our defense was non-existent, and our bench offense without LBJ was a joke.

We can solve both of those problems without trading the big 3, and there are lots of options for doing so.