Hue Jackson and Todd Haley Fired

[inliner311]

I'm guessing the last was Flacco?

Yea and that was at #18 with an organization with a much more proven track record. #2 with the trade that was on the table vs somewhere like #18 seem like completely different risk/reward scenarios.

 

[Chris]

Yea and that was at #18 with an organization with a much more proven track record. #2 with the trade that was on the table vs somewhere like #18 seem like completely different risk/reward scenarios.

I saw your post in the other thread and I certainly am inclined to agree with your line of thinking. Missing on Wentz would have been a cataclysmic way to start this new regime. Perhaps it wasn't a risk that could be taken and I'll hear that argument. But there's also something to be said for your scouting and talent evaluation- if they thought this guy wasn't the truth, so far, it appears they were wrong, and if they did like him but weren't 100% sure and decided the risk wasn't worth it...(should be noted this is not what they are saying- they seem to say they did not think he was able to be an above average NFL QB)

Don't know. I don't want to keep delving into this. I think it's worth talking about, but I'm not going to pull a muscle trying to dive into the intricacies of every angle of this scenario. In April, the Browns are going to have another huge draft opportunity and I just pray they build on what looks like a solid class from this past year.

 

[AZ_]

True but it's understandable to pass on a Non-FBS player because the lack on comparable data to use especially on an analytical team. Any model they used to compare the competition levels would be flawed. Has there been another non-FBS QB draft this high or even in the first round in recent history?

I don't venture to guess that metrics played any role in this type of discussion.

Can't imagine they're using college stats to rationalize picks at the QB position.

He checks off all the boxes in terms of physical, a major point for the Browns initial grouping of prospects.

We have little idea what they're using beyond that in terms of methodology.

They did take another FCS product in round four, and targeted FCS stud Tyrone Holmes as well, so they've shown no hesitation selecting players at that level.

 

[AZ_]

Wentz has a 2nd round WR, 1st round WR, an all pro TE, and a solid running game. The Eagles could take that shot.

The Browns, now, look to be in that same situation. Sucks we missed on Wentz, but it would be different if we missed on the picks. Which we definitely did not do.

Also...I am intrigued by Kessler. He made a lot of smart decisions, plays within himself. At the very least, he looks like a high level backup. I want to see the rest of his development.

Wait a minute now, the round they were drafted in does not define how Agholor and Matthews have performed.

They have been less than good for the most part.

Ertz is okay, but the Browns have their own All League tight end and part time plumbing contractor in Barnidge.

They also had one of the worst rushing attacks in the league

 

[inliner311]

I saw your post in the other thread and I certainly am inclined to agree with your line of thinking. Missing on Wentz would have been a cataclysmic way to start this new regime. Perhaps it wasn't a risk that could be taken and I'll hear that argument. But there's also something to be said for your scouting and talent evaluation- if they thought this guy wasn't the truth, so far, it appears they were wrong, and if they did like him but weren't 100% sure and decided the risk wasn't worth it...(should be noted this is not what they are saying- they seem to say they did not think he was able to be an above average NFL QB)

Don't know. I don't want to keep delving into this. I think it's worth talking about, but I'm not going to pull a muscle trying to dive into the intricacies of every angle of this scenario. In April, the Browns are going to have another huge draft opportunity and I just pray they build on what looks like a solid class from this past year.

Yea I hope they get it right too next year. I just wouldn't get so worked up as some are on an outlier from a non-FBS school. It can be easy to fall in love with talent because they are playing against lesser opponents. The organization being cautious about that isn't something I will ever rip them on.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Wait a minute now, the round they were drafted in does not define how Agholor and Matthews have performed.

They have been less than good for the most part.

Ertz is okay, but the Browns have their own All League tight end and part time plumbing contractor in Barnidge.

They also had one of the worst rushing attacks in the league

They also had Chip Kelly as the head coach, who is simply awful at what he does.

 

[AZ_]

They also had Chip Kelly as the head coach, who is simply awful at what he does.

The Browns also had Mike Pettine as their head coach, who was clearly in over his head without the offensive background of Kelly.

I think Hue has done an admirable job thus far, but he's got to keep building this talent into something.

 

[inliner311]

I don't venture to guess that metrics played any role in this type of discussion.

Can't imagine they're using college stats to rationalize picks at the QB position.

He checks off all the boxes in terms of physical, a major point for the Browns initial grouping of prospects.

We have little idea what they're using beyond that in terms of methodology.

They did take another FCS product in round four, and targeted FCS stud Tyrone Holmes as well, so they've shown no hesitation selecting players at that level.

Yea we don't know how they are evaluating QBs but some kind of college stats have to be in the equation. The eye test can be deceiving at any level but if a player is a NFL prospect at the FCS level, I'd imagine it's even harder to tell.

 

[spydy13]

I don't venture to guess that metrics played any role in this type of discussion.

Can't imagine they're using college stats to rationalize picks at the QB position.

He checks off all the boxes in terms of physical, a major point for the Browns initial grouping of prospects.

We have little idea what they're using beyond that in terms of methodology.

They did take another FCS product in round four, and targeted FCS stud Tyrone Holmes as well, so they've shown no hesitation selecting players at that level.

I think the biggest thing was accuracy. It's what Hue talked up with Kessler and what everyone raved about with Goff.

 

[AZ_]

Yea we don't know how they are evaluating QBs but some kind of college stats have to be in the equation. The eye test can be deceiving at any level but if a player is a NFL prospect at the FCS level, I'd imagine it's even harder to tell.

College stats are nothing if not deceiving, and Wentz is certainly evidence of that.

 

[billmac91]

The guy made noodle armed Andy Dalton a pro-bowler.

Anyone giving him a hard time after the last 2 games, which we should've won, need to take a step back and understand this is a process. The guy gameplanned us well enough to win using QB's such as McCown, Kessler, and Pryor. Our best QB today was also our best WR. Not ideal.

I like Hue. I think he's the right mix of innovation and motivation. He needs players. We should have players in 2-3 years. Let the guy work without all the naysaying in the background. It'll pay off. I truly believe he can get us to where Cincinnati is currently (not a bad thing) within 2 years. Just give him the rope he needs...

 

[godfather]

Wait a minute now, the round they were drafted in does not define how Agholor and Matthews have performed.

They have been less than good for the most part.

Ertz is okay, but the Browns have their own All League tight end and part time plumbing contractor in Barnidge.

They also had one of the worst rushing attacks in the league

The Browns also have a worse offensive line than Philly. I don't think that can be disputed right now.

Pass protection is kinda a big deal in the NFL. You can't do much when you're laying on your back. Or injured for that matter.

Second in QB hits allowed, second in sacks. Having weapons are nice. Even better when you actually have enough time to utilize them.

 

[AZ_]

The Browns also have a worse offensive line than Philly. I don't think that can be disputed right now.

Pass protection is kinda a big deal in the NFL. You can't do much when you're laying on your back. Or injured for that matter.

Second in QB hits allowed, second in sacks. Having weapons are nice. Even better when you actually have enough time to utilize them.

Yes, they have a better offensive line.

The Browns, while not great, allowed Kessler to go 21-for-33 today.

It's not as though a QB can't drop back without getting mauled.

I'm just not down with the excuse making, the Browns can have a young QB without ruining them.

They missed on Wentz.

 

[godfather]

Yes, they have a better offensive line.

The Browns, while not great, allowed Kessler to go 21-for-33 today.

It's not as though a QB can't drop back without getting mauled.

I'm just not down with the excuse making, the Browns can have a young QB without ruining them.

They missed on Wentz.

The coaching and game plan was absolutely great. How we utilized Kessler was nothing short of awesome. But when we needed big passing plays, the offensive line showed its limits, too. I know being banged up didn't help, but their pass protection is pretty terrible.

And I'm not seriously making any case that Kessler was in any way as good as Wentz either before someone misunderstands what I'm saying.

I thought he was okay today. Didn't really take much away from his performance other than he did a great job not making the "big mistake". He showed moments where he looked lost, other moments he looked solid.

And of course I think Miami is, well, pretty fucking bad too.

 

[inliner311]

College stats are nothing if not deceiving, and Wentz is certainly evidence of that.

I don't think they are using basic stats like yards, completion percentage, etc. I think they use more complex stats, probably some that they have to score themselves by breaking down tape.