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Hue Jackson and Todd Haley Fired

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This isn't anything new with Hue, sadly. After his season ended in 2011 with Oakland, he went on a rant:
Wow. Great find.

So he was always a raging asshat. I half wondered if our 1-31 joke of a football period was what pushed him over the edge into being a self-defensive dickhead.

Nope, looks like he was always a pompous jackss.

Why did we ever like him again? Those comments were terrible. No wonder he was shipped out after a single season in Oakland. Blaming everyone but himself.
 
The real crappy part of all this is when Hue gets fired, it's going to mean that everything the team and shiny young QB learned about Hue's offense is going to be tossed out the window when the new coach brings in his own system.

Another wasted year coming up....

This didn’t hurt Jared Goff. Actually helped him tremendously.

I’d be surprised if it ended up hurting Mitch Trubisky next season.

Fun fact: the last three QBs taken first (first QB picked, not No. 1) in their respective drafts - Winston, Goff and Trubisky - have all seen their head coach fired after their rookie season.
 
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This didn’t hurt Jared Goff. Actually helped him tremendously.

No, having a year helped him tremendously. Having to learn an entirely new offensive sustem didn't. It may not have hurt him as much as it might some other QB's, but there's no way in hell it helped him.
 
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No, having a year helped him tremendously. Having to learn an entirely new offensive sustem didn't. It may not have hurt him as much as it might some other QB's, but there's no way in hell it helped him.

So you don't think going from Jeff Fisher to Sean McVay played any role whatsoever in Jared Goff's improvement?

He would have played this well under Fisher in 2017?
 
No, having a year helped him tremendously. Having to learn an entirely new offensive sustem didn't. It may not have hurt him as much as it might some other QB's, but there's no way in hell it helped him.

Learning the system is.a matter of said QBs willingness to learn it.

What helps QBs is playing in a system which understands the strengths and weaknesses of its players and exploits the other teams weaknesses.

Learning new terminology is no sweat, if they’ve got the right guy.
 
So you don't think going from Jeff Fisher to Sean McVay played any role whatsoever in Jared Goff's improvement?

He would have played this well under Fisher in 2017?

No. He would have played better under Sean McVay in 2016, and better in 2017 if he'd been with McVay for all of 2016.

The point is that rather than keeping a coach who is on extremely thin ice and stands a good chance of getting shitcanned in the middle of next season, we'd be better off making the change now so that our brand new QB will get to spend at least two years in the same system before having it changed on him.
 
No. He would have played better under Sean McVay in 2016, and better in 2017 if he'd been with McVay for all of 2016.

The point is that rather than keeping a coach who is on extremely thin ice and stands a good chance of getting shitcanned in the middle of next season, we'd be better off making the change now so that our brand new QB will get to spend at least two years in the same system before having it changed on him.

Gotcha.

We’re arguing slightly different things here. I obviously agree with you wholeheartedly on Hue, but it’s pretty clear he’s returning at this point so we might as well not cry over that split milk.

I don’t want him here. You don’t want him here. But he’s here. So we have to just accept it for another year unfortunately.

Where I was going with this is that Darnold/Rosen/whoever won’t be ruined if they have to do a year under Hue and then he’s fired.
 
Gotcha.

We’re arguing slightly different things here. I obviously agree with you wholeheartedly on Hue, but it’s pretty clear he’s returning at this point so we might as well not cry over that split milk.

I don’t want him here. You don’t want him here. But he’s here. So we have to just accept it for another year unfortunately.

Where I was going with this is that Darnold/Rosen/whoever won’t be ruined if they have to do a year under Hue and then he’s fired.
QFT.

<controversial opinion warning>

I'll take that a step further and although I assume many will disagree, I think it is a point worthy of conversation. That point is regarding Jackson's handling of Kizer and the effect on Kizer's development. I've seen the opinion thrown around and pretty much accepted as truth that Hue Jackson somehow destroyed Kizer.

I can agree Hue could have handled Kizer much better and in a very different way. I would have preferred to see the offense more run based with a much more conservative passing game more suited for ball security which is Kizer's weakest point. For reasons beyond my comprehension Hue instead chose to stick fast to his vertical, risk taking pass reliant offense and that did expose Kizer more than a more conservative offense would have that was designed to minimize Kizer's weaknesses.

But for me it is far from a settled fact that Kizer is in some way ruined. For me the jury is out on this, and Kizer's ultimate destiny is up to him. I believe there is a decent chance that having gone through the fire this year, there is a decent possibility that this could ultimately accelerate Kizer's development. He lived through what could be considered a career's worth of failures and personal mistakes all in one season, and he was drinking from a fire hose for the bulk of the season before things appeared to slow down for him towards the very end of the season.

What effect all of this has on Kizer long term is really up to Kizer himself and how he processes what happened this season. Some of it might be beyond Kizer's control as far as what his true innate ceiling is when it comes to his ability to process things in real time. But whatever his ultimate ceiling is, Kizer now has a year's worth of game film and real life experience to process and improve upon. If he goes about it the right way I could see him reaching his maximum potential much sooner rather than later because of the past season, with him being tempered by fire in every way. My only question or doubt with Kizer is if he has the innate ability to process what he is seeing at the highest level and in the way necessary for him to ever become a truly good QB.

One thing I will say, I don't think Kizer was damaged psychologically the way so many people seem to assume he was. From everything I've seen coming out of this kid's mouth, he appears to be an extremely tough and resilient person right down to his core. IDK but maybe that's something Jackson saw in him that made Hue think he could subject kizer to force feeding that at times appeared to be coaching malpractice.

Only time will tell but I still think the kid could either end up being really good or he might never amount to anything. And if he ends up never being any good, he probably never had a chance due to his own innate shortcomings, not due to his mis-handling this year. I'd say in some ways he got a chance of a lifetime last season that he might have never gotten in another setting, for better or worse.
 
On a different note... when is Hue going to swim in Lake Erie? Didn't he say somewhere that he was going to honor that promise?
 
On a different note... when is Hue going to swim in Lake Erie? Didn't he say somewhere that he was going to honor that promise?

As much as I dislike the man as a coach?
I wouldn't wish for him to do it right now. It's probably bad enough that you'd probably get pneumonia or some form of hypothermia. Seriously...go look up what happened to George Allen.
 
QFT.

<controversial opinion warning>

I'll take that a step further and although I assume many will disagree, I think it is a point worthy of conversation. That point is regarding Jackson's handling of Kizer and the effect on Kizer's development. I've seen the opinion thrown around and pretty much accepted as truth that Hue Jackson somehow destroyed Kizer.

I can agree Hue could have handled Kizer much better and in a very different way. I would have preferred to see the offense more run based with a much more conservative passing game more suited for ball security which is Kizer's weakest point. For reasons beyond my comprehension Hue instead chose to stick fast to his vertical, risk taking pass reliant offense and that did expose Kizer more than a more conservative offense would have that was designed to minimize Kizer's weaknesses.

But for me it is far from a settled fact that Kizer is in some way ruined. For me the jury is out on this, and Kizer's ultimate destiny is up to him. I believe there is a decent chance that having gone through the fire this year, there is a decent possibility that this could ultimately accelerate Kizer's development. He lived through what could be considered a career's worth of failures and personal mistakes all in one season, and he was drinking from a fire hose for the bulk of the season before things appeared to slow down for him towards the very end of the season.

What effect all of this has on Kizer long term is really up to Kizer himself and how he processes what happened this season. Some of it might be beyond Kizer's control as far as what his true innate ceiling is when it comes to his ability to process things in real time. But whatever his ultimate ceiling is, Kizer now has a year's worth of game film and real life experience to process and improve upon. If he goes about it the right way I could see him reaching his maximum potential much sooner rather than later because of the past season, with him being tempered by fire in every way. My only question or doubt with Kizer is if he has the innate ability to process what he is seeing at the highest level and in the way necessary for him to ever become a truly good QB.

One thing I will say, I don't think Kizer was damaged psychologically the way so many people seem to assume he was. From everything I've seen coming out of this kid's mouth, he appears to be an extremely tough and resilient person right down to his core. IDK but maybe that's something Jackson saw in him that made Hue think he could subject kizer to force feeding that at times appeared to be coaching malpractice.

Only time will tell but I still think the kid could either end up being really good or he might never amount to anything. And if he ends up never being any good, he probably never had a chance due to his own innate shortcomings, not due to his mis-handling this year. I'd say in some ways he got a chance of a lifetime last season that he might have never gotten in another setting, for better or worse.

Here's the thing...

I don't disagree with anything you said.

Hue threw Kizer in the deepest of deep ends, told him to sink or swim, and he mostly sank. But all things considered, I don't disagree with your premise that being given every possible scheme, every possible check, every possible post snap read will be beneficial to his long-term development.

That said...

Hue either knowingly or unknowingly - my guess is the latter - decided that Kizer's development was more important than winning football games and that's just unacceptable.
 
<controversial opinion warning>

Only time will tell but I still think the kid could either end up being really good or he might never amount to anything.

Straight fire right here :chuckle:

But joking aside, I agree with you - dude isn't ruined. It's just his chances of salvaging his NFL career continue to go down with every day that our dipshit coach is employed.
 
Hue either knowingly or unknowingly - my guess is the latter - decided that Kizer's development was more important than winning football games and that's just unacceptable.

I still suspect Hue did it deliberately to "prove" to Jimmy that Sashi didn't give him a good enough quarterback. He put that above either 1) getting the best QB play possible, and 2) doing what was best for Kizer's development.

He was using Kizer to win an argument with the FO. And at one point, he even tried to leverage Kizer's poor performance into forcing the FO to get the QB he wanted mid-season.
 

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