Hue vs. Sashi: You must keep 1

[Ohio]

Kizer was the only pick that was suspect to me through the first 4 this year. I happen to think Peppers was an elite talent, I still think he could be the next Polamalu (sp?). I would take Coleman again because his measurables and college production are basically the same as OBJ.

Based on what we've seen so far (and projecting progression), you would take both Coleman & Peppers again?

I'm sorry, but that's absolute insanity to me. I just...that's mindblowing.

 

[Zeus69]

I admit, was a big Hue Jackson fan, but have lost faith in him and seriously doubt he is the long-term answer. No one makes the right call all the time, but his cumulative body of work (issues mentioned above – scheming to your relative strengths, timeouts, clock management, challenges, penalty acceptances/declines, etc.) has left me scratching my head more often than not.

You must have talent to win in the NFL, but head-coaching matters when you need to maximize the hand you’re dealt. Just look at the LA Rams post Jeff Fisher.

 

[Matches]

Who is the elite talent that we arguably could say that they "passed on" to take Corey Coleman? Taylor Decker is just as injured as Coleman. Artie Burns I guess?

 

[Soda]

Who is the elite talent that we arguably could say that they "passed on" to take Corey Coleman? Taylor Decker is just as injured as Coleman. Artie Burns I guess?

Darron Lee.

It's hindsight drafting. No use in it, other than when ESPN does it for clicks. Sure, Tre'Davious White has been better than Jabrill Peppers. Don't act like you knew it before, though.

 

[Ohio]

Keep in mind, although better players were overlooked where Coleman & Peppers were drafted, the Browns originally weren't even selecting in those spots. They passed on additional players as well from the spot they were originally slotted in.

Nobody wanted anything to do with Darron Lee. Funny he's mentioned though as his performance has been on par with Jabrill's. And maybe nobody was saying "Oh I really hope we get Tre'Davious White" but some (not just me or "stupid OSU homers") sure as shit were saying "avoid Peppers like the plague."

 

[Binkster]

The roster is improved in talent, the issue this year has been the offense, Hue's expertise. The lack of a OC screams as an issue when the offense has looked this bad.

Outside of the O-line, it's borderline impossible for me to point to more than 1-2 moves they've made to add talent to the offense.

Njoku, DeValve, ... maybe Coleman?

It's entirely possible they're not developing certain players but most of these guys just look absolutely shitty (e.g. Britt, Louis, Higgins, Dayes, Kizer, Coates, etc.).

Confused where people are seeing "flashes" from Higgins and Louis. These guys are absolute trash and can't even haul in a well-thrown ball.

Just my opinion.

 

[FiveThous]

Outside of the O-line, it's borderline impossible for me to point to more than 1-2 moves they've made to add talent to the offense.

Njoku, DeValve, ... maybe Coleman?

It's entirely possible they're not developing certain players but most of these guys just look absolutely shitty (e.g. Britt, Louis, Higgins, Dayes, Kizer, Coates, etc.).

Confused where people are seeing "flashes" from Higgins and Louis. These guys are absolute trash and can't even haul in a well-thrown ball.

Just my opinion.

Louis is out performing fan favorite TP and is still incredibly raw. Higgins had a monster game earlier in the year and is starting to show the route running skills he was known for in college. These guys were day 3 picks that were going to take several years to hit. In year two, we're seeing some reasons why the Browns targeted them last year.

 

[Los216]

Louis is out performing fan favorite TP and is still incredibly raw. Higgins had a monster game earlier in the year and is starting to show the route running skills he was known for in college. These guys were day 3 picks that were going to take several years to hit. In year two, we're seeing some reasons why the Browns targeted them last year.

And they were open yesterday. They were open. That was a winnable game with better QB play.

 

[macbdog]

If these are my options, I do neither. Instead, I work out a trade with Dean Spanos for the Chargers. I would rather deal with that clusterfuck than having to keep either an inept head coach or the Ti-83 FO.

 

[Lee]

Outside of the O-line, it's borderline impossible for me to point to more than 1-2 moves they've made to add talent to the offense.

Njoku, DeValve, ... maybe Coleman?

It's entirely possible they're not developing certain players but most of these guys just look absolutely shitty (e.g. Britt, Louis, Higgins, Dayes, Kizer, Coates, etc.).

Confused where people are seeing "flashes" from Higgins and Louis. These guys are absolute trash and can't even haul in a well-thrown ball.

Just my opinion.

Ogbah has looked good
Nassib is looking ok
Shon Colemen is starting, looking decent
Kindred has looked real good
Schobert has been a stud
DeValve has looked real good
Drango came in and did ok, (replaced a Hofer, so thatis hard)

Myles looks great, but no brainer, so no credit there
Peppers i will give an incomplete, not loving the pick, but not as bad as many are saying
Njoku has looked good
Brantley has looked rotational and potential.

Really not bad drafting, hitting on about 75% or so

 

[Ohio]

Really not bad drafting, hitting on about 75% or so

I agree with this, but when that 25% is coming in the first couple rounds, it is kind of brutal. It'd be one thing if they were finding 1st round talent in day three to make up for it, but they haven't.

They have done a great job finding solid players in those middle rounds for sure though...but that's not enough to turn around a team that is devoid of elite talent.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

I really don't want to clean house, I just want pieces that are missing to be filled in. Coaching staff needs an OC to take that responsibility away from Hue. Front office needs a VP of football operations with experience to be in charge of making personnel decisions.

This is probably the likely course of action. Hire someone that has the power to clean house in 2019 if needed.

As many issues as I have with Hue at the moment, the idea of firing Hue this offseason, maybe forcing Williams on a new HC, and then still cleaning out the FO in 2019 sounds real bad.

This is a tough situation. The Browns really need to build some type of continuity, but it’s hard to justify Hue’s record at this point.

We also don’t know what kind of discussions Hue, Sashi, and Haslam have had. For all we know, this is exactly what Haslam was expecting to happen in the first two years. I’m going to guess they get one more year with adjustments to the FO and coaching staff. Without dramatic improvement next year, coaching staff is gone and perhaps the FO.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I agree with this, but when that 25% is coming in the first couple rounds, it is kind of brutal. It'd be one thing if they were finding 1st round talent in day three to make up for it, but they haven't.

They have done a great job finding solid players in those middle rounds for sure though...but that's not enough to turn around a team that is devoid of elite talent.

The only picks they have truly blown are the QB picks. And I am more inclined to believe that Hue had a lot to do with the choices than most here may be willing to admit. Neither were the darlings of the analytic community.

Either way, the draft, after the 3rd round, is a crap shoot. If you get anything from there, you have hit on the pick.

In the first 3 rounds, the Browns have hit on:

Garrett
Njoku
Ogbah
S. Coleman
Ogunjobi

and have missed on:

C Colemam
Peppers
QB's x2

And that is kind of harsh, because both Coleman and Peppers could EASILY go over to the other side if Coleman is healthy and Peppers is used correctly.

This FO, for the most part, has done well. But they have missed on the biggest position twice and you do not really get to recover from that type of mistake.

And while I would LOVE to keep the FO in place, I do not think the football community *read: Agents and Coaches* would react well to the Browns putting full blame on Hue. I think they would end up with a real bottom of the barrel guy to be HC.

So they both should go. But if the long ranging benefits were not to be thought of, Sashi has done so much more than Hue, it's not even funny.

 

[FiveThous]

The only picks they have truly blown are the QB picks. And I am more inclined to believe that Hue had a lot to do with the choices than most here may be willing to admit. Neither were the darlings of the analytic community.

Either way, the draft, after the 3rd round, is a crap shoot. If you get anything from there, you have hit on the pick.

In the first 3 rounds, the Browns have hit on:

Garrett
Njoku
Ogbah
S. Coleman
Ogunjobi

and have missed on:

C Colemam
Peppers
QB's x2

And that is kind of harsh, because both Coleman and Peppers could EASILY go over to the other side if Coleman is healthy and Peppers is used correctly.

This FO, for the most part, has done well. But they have missed on the biggest position twice and you do not really get to recover from that type of mistake.

And while I would LOVE to keep the FO in place, I do not think the football community *read: Agents and Coaches* would react well to the Browns putting full blame on Hue. I think they would end up with a real bottom of the barrel guy to be HC.

So they both should go. But if the long ranging benefits were not to be thought of, Sashi has done so much more than Hue, it's not even funny.

Hey I get it, if they FO stays and the HC is the one to get the axe, then you go out and find a coach who appreciates the addition of analytics and what the Browns are trying to build. If you can find a guy that is younger and understands their process and how to work his team around that, you're on to something.

 

[Ohio]

The only picks they have truly blown are the QB picks. And I am more inclined to believe that Hue had a lot to do with the choices than most here may be willing to admit. Neither were the darlings of the analytic community.

Either way, the draft, after the 3rd round, is a crap shoot. If you get anything from there, you have hit on the pick.

In the first 3 rounds, the Browns have hit on:

Garrett
Njoku
Ogbah
S. Coleman
Ogunjobi

and have missed on:

C Colemam
Peppers
QB's x2

And that is kind of harsh, because both Coleman and Peppers could EASILY go over to the other side if Coleman is healthy and Peppers is used correctly.

This FO, for the most part, has done well. But they have missed on the biggest position twice and you do not really get to recover from that type of mistake.

And while I would LOVE to keep the FO in place, I do not think the football community *read: Agents and Coaches* would react well to the Browns putting full blame on Hue. I think they would end up with a real bottom of the barrel guy to be HC.

So they both should go. But if the long ranging benefits were not to be thought of, Sashi has done so much more than Hue, it's not even funny.

The elite talent comes in the first two rounds and that is where the Browns have had their misses. They've gotten solid players in the 3rd and later, as you just pointed out, but those guys aren't elite.