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Iman Shumpert: Gone! Thank God!

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TitleTown said:
It's my opinion. One based entirely on a gut feeling and nothing more. I hope Shump proves me wrong and stays healthy and contributes in the postseason.

I respect your right to disagree.
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I respect yours as well. I didn't mean to come off so harsh bud. It was just late and it was the first time I've looked at Delly's numbers this season so I was all riled up lol. I've been wrong before and will be again on many things, so who really knows, lol.
 
Him and liggins are energizer bunnies on defense.. Loved the way they defended the last possession going to halftime.. However liggins is a liability on offense and shump is no pg..

Great stretch of games for shump.. He belongs in the starting lineup, he simply just shoot open 3's drive a little and defend at the highest level..
 
Chris Parker said:
I'd be happy with defend at a high level. But it ain't happened all year if you pay attention to him on D.... all the defensive numbers are way off compared to last year.


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Shumpert lost his balance there due to the contact. That was not a flop looking for a call, he never even argued to a ref or even looked towards a ref after the contact. Also---IIRC, the Cavs weren't switching yesterday. That wasn't Shumpert's assignment. Shumpert lost his balance , therefore Love picked up Kawhi, and nobody rotated to Lee.

I watched closely yesterday and I thought Shumpert played a good overall defensive game. His best of the year, individually, maybe even. I don't think that highlight is a very good indicator of what Shumpert is doing wrong. I was watching some replayed from the Utah game and I noticed some issues with Shumpert losing his assignment, and he was very sloppy rotating whenever we would have our big "show" on George Hill PnR's. Individually, Shumperts instincts and footwork seem to still be pretty good though from what I can see. Good at closing/sealing passing lanes too, but also has been gambling more than normal. Using his entire body instead of just gambling with his hands, which makes him more vulnerable to looking bad. Had a play against S.A. late in the game where he gambled, but just with his arms, and got a deflection and a big steal, it was exactly like the way he played his first playoff run here, when he really did look like an elite defender. I wonder if he would look better if we changed the defense back to simple stuff from Longabardi's "scheme" again.

But that's also the first time this year I've seen him really do that. I hope it wasn't just a flash.
 
InBoobieWeTrust said:
Shumpert lost his balance there due to the contact. That was not a flop looking for a call, he never even argued to a ref or even looked towards a ref after the contact. Also---IIRC, the Cavs weren't switching yesterday. That wasn't Shumpert's assignment. Shumpert lost his balance , therefore Love picked up Kawhi, and nobody rotated to Lee.

I watched closely yesterday and I thought Shumpert played a good overall defensive game. His best of the year, individually, maybe even. I don't think that highlight is a very good indicator of what Shumpert is doing wrong. I was watching some replayed from the Utah game and I noticed some issues with Shumpert losing his assignment, and he was very sloppy rotating whenever we would have our big "show" on George Hill PnR's. Individually, Shumperts instincts and footwork seem to still be pretty good though from what I can see. Good at closing/sealing passing lanes too, but also has been gambling more than normal. Using his entire body instead of just gambling with his hands, which makes him more vulnerable to looking bad. Had a play against S.A. late in the game where he gambled, but just with his arms, and got a deflection and a big steal, it was exactly like the way he played his first playoff run here, when he really did look like an elite defender. I wonder if he would look better if we changed the defense back to simple stuff from Longabardi's "scheme" again.

But that's also the first time this year I've seen him really do that. I hope it wasn't just a flash.
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Yesterday was the first time all year I thought: "Hmmmm, maybe we need to keep Shump." Him and Liggs both playing consistent would go a long ways toward solving our defensive ills.
 
InBoobieWeTrust said:
Shumpert lost his balance there due to the contact. That was not a flop looking for a call, he never even argued to a ref or even looked towards a ref after the contact. Also---IIRC, the Cavs weren't switching yesterday. That wasn't Shumpert's assignment. Shumpert lost his balance , therefore Love picked up Kawhi, and nobody rotated to Lee.

I watched closely yesterday and I thought Shumpert played a good overall defensive game. His best of the year, individually, maybe even. I don't think that highlight is a very good indicator of what Shumpert is doing wrong. I was watching some replayed from the Utah game and I noticed some issues with Shumpert losing his assignment, and he was very sloppy rotating whenever we would have our big "show" on George Hill PnR's. Individually, Shumperts instincts and footwork seem to still be pretty good though from what I can see. Good at closing/sealing passing lanes too, but also has been gambling more than normal. Using his entire body instead of just gambling with his hands, which makes him more vulnerable to looking bad. Had a play against S.A. late in the game where he gambled, but just with his arms, and got a deflection and a big steal, it was exactly like the way he played his first playoff run here, when he really did look like an elite defender. I wonder if he would look better if we changed the defense back to simple stuff from Longabardi's "scheme" again.

But that's also the first time this year I've seen him really do that. I hope it wasn't just a flash.
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He got the call on a more egregious flop when his arms "got tangled" with David Lee a play after a stupid player control foul.

It's not the first time. He does it A LOT. That, imo, was not an aberration at all. He does it at least once a game.

Here are a couple more poor Shump plays I happened to spy.



You are right, that was a big steal and a good play made keeping his hands up. Doesn't happen that much.

I was watching everybody, rewinding to find the defensive mistakes or what not. I'm not expert so maybe I missed stuff. But I watched specifically Shump, TT and Korver. Korver covered his assignments well. TT was amazing on LMA.

But Shump was a problem. Maybe you don't see it. But to me his D continues to slide, MOSTLY off the ball. But he doesn't negotiate screens all that well. Indeed lately, Kyrie seems better getting over screens than Shumpert, imo.

No defense stat can stand on its own, but Shumpert's 107.3 def efficiency is highest of his career

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202697/

meanwhile his steals per 36 min is a career low

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/shumpim01.html

He is better than last year in his DFG, tho it's not by a lot and entirely from his defensing 3s which it's been suggested shows no corellation from
yr to yr. Not sure I buy that, but in fairness it deserves mention (esp since +/- is equally troublesome)

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202697/defense-dash/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular Season
 
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Chris Parker said:
He got the call on a more egregious flops when his arms "got tangled" with David Lee a play after a stupid player control foul.

It's not the first time. He does it A LOT. That, imo, was not an aberration at all. He does it at least once a game.

Here are a couple more poor Shump plays I happened to spy.



You are right, that was a big steal and a good play made keeping his hands up. Doesn't happen that much.

I was watching everybody, rewinding to find the defensive mistakes or what not. I'm not expert so maybe I missed stuff. But I watched specifically Shump, TT and Korver. Korver covered his assignments well. TT was amazing on LMA.

But Shump was a problem. Maybe you don't see it. But to me his D continues to slide, MOSTLY off the ball. But he doesn't negotiate screens all that well. Indeed lately, Kyrie seems better getting over screens than Shumpert, imo.
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Great yet how did he go from a defensive stopper to a offensive player in two seasons? I mean Can he both and are they trying to make him both? He confuses the living day lights out of me. He made some unreal plays against SA and here is what I think. They are trying to reform his game and we are starting to see signs of it. I think that was the plan with Shump to make him a overall solid player.

I am not giving up on him but he does or did add life to a game where everyone felt blah. He is trying but I feel again this goes back to LeBron teams. Where they focus so much on one player and his play everyone gets upset. Do not get me wrong they won the title and might do it again but this way of doing on LeBron teams is weird. However they always come out on top or in the finals.

I say keep Shump now as there is no good reason to trade him and he is trying and seems healthy again. If he would focus more on the defense he would be fine. I feel this is why we need a play making PG "Rubio" to run the second unit. Love loves Rubio.... and he makes plays. I want Rubio here and bad because it make sense from a second unit when you run out four sharp shooters. Oh yeah Smith is coming back soon and we might add new talent to when the full team is there. We all know what that team led by LeBron can do.

P.S. I like how Tristan has taken a huge leadership role, Nice to see and he always owns up to his mistakes.
 
Snarly said:
Great yet how did he go from a defensive stopper to a offensive player in two seasons? I mean Can he both and are they trying to make him both? He confuses the living day lights out of me. He made some unreal plays against SA and here is what I think. They are trying to reform his game and we are starting to see signs of it. I think that was the plan with Shump to make him a overall solid player.

I am not giving up on him but he does or did add life to a game where everyone felt blah. He is trying but I feel again this goes back to LeBron teams. Where they focus so much on one player and his play everyone gets upset. Do not get me wrong they won the title and might do it again but this way of doing on LeBron teams is weird. However they always come out on top or in the finals.

I say keep Shump now as there is no good reason to trade him and he is trying and seems healthy again. If he would focus more on the defense he would be fine. I feel this is why we need a play making PG "Rubio" to run the second unit. Love loves Rubio.... and he makes plays. I want Rubio here and bad because it make sense from a second unit when you run out four sharp shooters. Oh yeah Smith is coming back soon and we might add new talent to when the full team is there. We all know what that team led by LeBron can do.

P.S. I like how Tristan has taken a huge leadership role, Nice to see and he always owns up to his mistakes.
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personally I think the D rep was always more of a media meme than something substantive. he's a good D player mostly in his career, but to me, mostly hasn't looked like a stopper. He has some moments, and when he plays hard he can be, but I see him make a lot of mistakes off-the-ball which I can't tell if it's brainfart or mild indifference. (not unlike others on team...)

Shump deserves a lot of credit for the work on his offensive game and of late he's been shooting much better after falling off for a bit. I really like his offense this year, esp when he doesn't drive.

(I might be wrong about this driving thing, he actually has produced pretty well on drives this year. In fairness, and makes less TOs than Liggins or Felder for that matter)
\
http://stats.nba.com/players/drives/#!?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*cle&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular Season&sort=DRIVE_PTS_PCT&dir=1

he's scored 1.6 pts on 1.9 drives a game
last year it was 1.0 on 1.9

in january hes shooting 49/46/67
after 39/36/81 in december

so I'm not trying to say he's not played well; his offense has been great. Just kinda feel his D has slid as his offense has improved this season. Maybe like LeBron he's just going thru the R.S. motion on D and come playoffs will actually play hard like we expect rest of team will finally do.

Or hope.
 
TitleTown said:
It's my opinion. One based entirely on a gut feeling and nothing more. I hope Shump proves me wrong and stays healthy and contributes in the postseason.

I respect your right to disagree.
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Sorry, I just had to hit the disagree button on this. Not because I actually disagree, but because you respect my right to disagree so I feel obligated to exercise that right.:chuckle:
 
buzzdog said:
Sorry, I just had to hit the disagree button on this. Not because I actually disagree, but because you respect my right to disagree so I feel obligated to exercise that right.:chuckle:
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Nice!

Well, in that case, I also respect your right to handjobs :chuckle:
 
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