Is the NBA too top-heavy right now?

[Stark]

Anybody feel like starting lineup depth is way down in the NBA this year? Maybe it's just me, but I feel like there are a lot of either washed up or just plain below-average guys starting this year.

Here is everybody (who's played) so far's starting lineups for their opener:

Boston
PG - Kyrie Irving
SG - Jaylen Brown
SF - Jayson Tatum
PF - Gordon Hayward
C - Al Horford

One of the deepest starting fives in the NBA as long as Hayward can rebound and Kyrie stays healthy.

Philadelphia
PG - Ben Simmons
SG - Markelle Fultz
SF - Robert Covington
PF - Dario Saric
C - Joel Embiid

Another cohesive and well put together starting five, but Fultz needs to have a good year for it to be considered elite. He was a team worst -16 on opening night.

Brooklyn
PG - D'Angelo Russell
SG - Caris LeVert
SF - Joe Harris
PF - Jared Dudley
C - Jarrett Allen

Solid upside for Russell, LeVert, and Allen in my opinion. Harris is a solid role player, and Dudley is washed. Bad starting lineup for a bad team.

Detroit
PG - Reggie Jackson
SG - Bruce Brown
SF - Luke Kennard
PF - Blake Griffin
C - Andre Drummond

Jackson is a solid PG and the Griffin/Drummond pivot down low is one of the leagues better big men pairings. Bruce Brown and Luke Kennard starting at the 2/3 is absolute shit.

Atlanta
PG - Trae Young
SG - Kent Bazemore
SF - Vince Carter
PF - Taurean Prince
C - Alex Len

The Hawks started 41-year old Vince Carter on opening night. 'Nuff said.

New York
PG - Frank Ntilinkina
SG - Trey Burke
SF - Tim Hardaway Jr.
PF - Lance Thomas
C - Enes Kanter

Another garbage starting five. Zinger is out obviously, but Lance Thomas and Trey Burke should not be starting in the NBA and Frank N hasn't proved much of anything yet either.

Toronto
PG - Kyle Lowry
SG - Danny Green
SF - Kawhi Leonard
PF - Pascal Siakam
C - Jonas Valanciunas

One of the best starting fives in the NBA on the defensive side of the ball. Their bench could throw out a five-man unit that I think beats Atlanta, New York, and Brooklyn's starters (VanVleet, Powell, Miles, Anunoby, Ibaka).

Cleveland
PG - George Hill
SG - Rodney Hood
SF - Cedi Osman
PF - Kevin Love
C - Tristan Thompson

At this point, I don't think Thompson, Hood, or Hill are NBA starters, so that says about all you need to know about the Cavaliers this year.

Don't have time to keep going in-depth for each team, but the fact that guys like Vince Carter, Bruce Brown, Luke Kennard, Jared Dudley, Tristan Thompson, Lance Thomas, Derrick Jones Jr. (MIA), Rodney McGruer (MIA), Yogi Farrell (SAC), Draymond Green (GSW), Ryan Anderson (PHX), and Isaiah Cannan (PHX) are all starting just makes me feel like either talent is down, or tanking is at an all-time high, or both.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Expansion has totally thinned out the talent.

The creation of the Chicago Packers was a total mistake. To say nothing of the abominations of franchises that followed.

 

[Lee]

YES

Close thread.

 

[Nathan S]

Don't have time to keep going in-depth for each team, but the fact that guys like Vince Carter, Bruce Brown, Luke Kennard, Jared Dudley, Tristan Thompson, Lance Thomas, Derrick Jones Jr. (MIA), Rodney McGruer (MIA), Yogi Farrell (SAC), Draymond Green (GSW), Ryan Anderson (PHX), and Isaiah Cannan (PHX) are all starting just makes me feel like either talent is down, or tanking is at an all-time high, or both.

!!!!

 

[Randolphkeys]

Free agency was not a decision made for the betterment of the league, it was a court decision for the betterment of the civil rights of athletes. In granting free agency to players, superteam model was inevitable. Preferential treatment of certain destination cities was inevitable.

In it's wake we have seen small markets plan for "windows to compete". The Cavaliers are deficient in talent at the moment, but it comes after a "window" closed. It would be far worse to be Atlanta, who enjoyed a window of barely contending in the six to tenth best team. It would be awful to support the Nets, who swing hard on a window and saw that window immediately shatter into useless shards.

Just remember how much joy you gleaned from all those recent years that the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Sixers, and Knicks all sucked at once. That was a Stepien Era wet dream.

 

[JayDD1972]

Anybody feel like starting lineup depth is way down in the NBA this year? Maybe it's just me, but I feel like there are a lot of either washed up or just plain below-average guys starting this year.

Here is everybody (who's played) so far's starting lineups for their opener:

Boston
PG - Kyrie Irving
SG - Jaylen Brown
SF - Jayson Tatum
PF - Gordon Hayward
C - Al Horford

One of the deepest starting fives in the NBA as long as Hayward can rebound and Kyrie stays healthy.

Philadelphia
PG - Ben Simmons
SG - Markelle Fultz
SF - Robert Covington
PF - Dario Saric
C - Joel Embiid

Another cohesive and well put together starting five, but Fultz needs to have a good year for it to be considered elite. He was a team worst -16 on opening night.

Brooklyn
PG - D'Angelo Russell
SG - Caris LeVert
SF - Joe Harris
PF - Jared Dudley
C - Jarrett Allen

Solid upside for Russell, LeVert, and Allen in my opinion. Harris is a solid role player, and Dudley is washed. Bad starting lineup for a bad team.

Detroit
PG - Reggie Jackson
SG - Bruce Brown
SF - Luke Kennard
PF - Blake Griffin
C - Andre Drummond

Jackson is a solid PG and the Griffin/Drummond pivot down low is one of the leagues better big men pairings. Bruce Brown and Luke Kennard starting at the 2/3 is absolute shit.

Atlanta
PG - Trae Young
SG - Kent Bazemore
SF - Vince Carter
PF - Taurean Prince
C - Alex Len

The Hawks started 41-year old Vince Carter on opening night. 'Nuff said.

New York
PG - Frank Ntilinkina
SG - Trey Burke
SF - Tim Hardaway Jr.
PF - Lance Thomas
C - Enes Kanter

Another garbage starting five. Zinger is out obviously, but Lance Thomas and Trey Burke should not be starting in the NBA and Frank N hasn't proved much of anything yet either.

Toronto
PG - Kyle Lowry
SG - Danny Green
SF - Kawhi Leonard
PF - Pascal Siakam
C - Jonas Valanciunas

One of the best starting fives in the NBA on the defensive side of the ball. Their bench could throw out a five-man unit that I think beats Atlanta, New York, and Brooklyn's starters (VanVleet, Powell, Miles, Anunoby, Ibaka).

Cleveland
PG - George Hill
SG - Rodney Hood
SF - Cedi Osman
PF - Kevin Love
C - Tristan Thompson

At this point, I don't think Thompson, Hood, or Hill are NBA starters, so that says about all you need to know about the Cavaliers this year.

Don't have time to keep going in-depth for each team, but the fact that guys like Vince Carter, Bruce Brown, Luke Kennard, Jared Dudley, Tristan Thompson, Lance Thomas, Derrick Jones Jr. (MIA), Rodney McGruer (MIA), Yogi Farrell (SAC), Draymond Green (GSW), Ryan Anderson (PHX), and Isaiah Cannan (PHX) are all starting just makes me feel like either talent is down, or tanking is at an all-time high, or both.

Great post, i like how you threw Draymond in there.lol

 

[bigfoot5415]

I feel like this question is brought up as much as "is water wet". It is setup to always be this way. It will always be top heavy. Its been that way since free agency & has gotten progressively worse as tax implications come into play & players want to collude with one another.

Players have so much more power than any other league and IMO it's why the NBA, despite its history, will always he "percieved" as the third league. Free agency has basically allowed destination cities to be relevant every so many years despite horrible drafting. Whereas we dont have that luxury.

Look at how many hall of famers & all stars the Lakers have acquired vs how many they have drafted (especially in recent memory). Kobe has 5 championships but where would he & the Lakers be without free agency. Let alone stealing an all star from a small market. He likely wouldnt have a ring & Duncan likely has 2 or 3 more. If you go back further, how many rings do they get before the greatest player at the time forced his way there due to his religion (Milwaukee still hasn't recovered)?

Boston however, has failed since free agency became a thing. Because it's not a destination. They've had a handful of years in contention but next to nothing to show for it. Hell that's another scenario where a little collusion at the GM level led to a title. You never see that amongst other markets. Of their 17 titles, 16 came before free agency and I wanna say 12 came before the merger.

The salary cap is a smokescreen to give the illusion of parity & the repeater tax is just in place to make it more difficult for other markets to compete long term. Look no further than the Warrior vs Cavs revenue over the past few years. We lost money annually while the Warriors made hundreds of millions despite being in a similar financial situation.

Add in those things then factor in an entire generation of guys who watched players get crucified for legacy...and you'll see a more top loaded league than ever. If you think it's bad now, wait until the Celtics win or the Lakers collude their way to multiple all stars.

 

[czvo]

The NBA is deeper than ever. You want to talk about weak starting lineups? Go back 15 years. WOOF.

 

[Cassity14]

Tough to blame the simple existence of free agency. Parity is possible with sports that have free agency.

The NBA's issue, in my opinion, rests in maximum salaries and the soft salary cap.

The league's true best players aren't allowed to be paid in a way that distinguishes them from the rest of the run of the mill all-stars in the league.

Teams are able to add enough talent around superstars by circumventing the cap via things like the MLE, minimum contracts, and loose salary requirements for trades.

Make the cap a hard cap and allow LeBron to make 50 million a year like he deserves, and I think we'd see much better parity across the league.

 

[Ohio]

Tough to blame the simple existence of free agency. Parity is possible with sports that have free agency.

The NBA's issue, in my opinion, rests in maximum salaries and the soft salary cap.

The league's true best players aren't allowed to be in a way that distinguishes them from the rest of the run of the mill all-stars in the league.

Teams are able to add enough talent around superstars by circumventing the cap via things like the MLE, minimum contracts, and loose salary requirements for trades.

Make the cap a hard cap and allow LeBron to make 50 million a year like he deserves, and I think we'd see much better parity across the league.

Absolutely.

 

[Derek]

League is always top-heavy, and don't you dare talk down Luke Kennard.

 

[Randolphkeys]

League is always top-heavy, and don't you dare talk down Luke Kennard.

I haven't realized he's from small town Ohio when he played for Duke. I probably shouldn't have hated him so much.

 

[Anglefan]

The NBA is deeper than ever. You want to talk about weak starting lineups? Go back 15 years. WOOF.

Completely agree. The post Jordan era was awful. This is the best the NBA has ever been in terms of talent. Almost every team has at least a few players that you are excited to watch and plenty of rosters have incredible depth.

Is it competitively even? No, but the games are as fun to watch as ever.

 

[Soar]

NBA will always be top-heavy simply due to the nature of the game..

5 guys play at one time for a team and play both ways. Baseball and football are so much more specialized.

As great as Peyton Manning was, he couldn't control the defense that he was often stuck with. Bob Gibson had a 1.12 ERA in 1968 and still lost 9-10 games...

So by default, truly great NBA players will have such a larger impact on their teams and the league. And generational talents like Jordan, LeBron well... obviously become nearly unstoppable forces.

 

[CleveRocks]

Peyton Manning might not have been the best example. At his peak he could score at will.

But in my opinion the league is top heavy because the league the players and the media want it to be. They are playing it up to the big populations, similar to baseball, and small market teams are meant to be farm teams functionally. I think its a mistake, but I could be a tad biased.