Joel Embid 2016-17

[Ohio]

Happy to see Embid playing and killing it out there. I wanted him over Wiggins before his injury news came out.

Just hope he can stay healthy and maintain this level of play, he'll be special.

 

[Cavatt]

Embiid has never played 600 min in any HS, College, or NBA season. You guys want to trade the only Cle Championship in any of our lifetime's for Greg Oden's more injury plagued brother? Because he has been pretty good for the 1-9 Sixers? He has STILL never played in a B2B. He has STILL never played 26 min in any NBA game. He has 7 career games played.

Am I in Bizarro world??

I think you are right and have every right to be concerned about his health going forward. He is also a great shooter and is huge and is fast.

 

[HurricaneKid]

I think you are right and have every right to be concerned about his health going forward. He is also a great shooter and is huge and is fast.

He is a remarkable talent. If he had been healthy coming out of school he would have been a generational talent. It would have been really interesting to see what the Cavs would have done. But chronic/degenerative back and foot problems are a real problem for a young big and decimated his value (and still does to this day)

 

[PedroFlu]

If he never got injured.. Cavs draft him and keep him.

Irving - LeBron - Embiid

Cavs would still need a PF. With the cap space (difference of rookie salary to Love's - around 10M) + the assets of that time, which PF could have been taken?

 

[Cavatt]

If he never got injured.. Cavs draft him and keep him.

Irving - LeBron - Embiid

Cavs would still need a PF. With the cap space (difference of rookie salary to Love's - around 10M) + the assets of that time, which PF could have been taken?

Channing Frye lol

 

[Cassity14]

The idea that the Cavs wouldn't have tried to unload Embiid for a star like Love is hilarious. The idea that it would have been wrong to do so is even more hilarious.

The Cavs just won a fucking title.

 

[Rich]

If he never got injured.. Cavs draft him and keep him.

Irving - LeBron - Embiid

Cavs would still need a PF. With the cap space (difference of rookie salary to Love's - around 10M) + the assets of that time, which PF could have been taken?

I can't see how this would have ever been the case. They made the pick prior to LeBron announcing his decision. Once that happened, everything changed. They were making a trade for Love no matter what.

And, ugh...I still think Jabari Parker is going to be the best of the 3

 

[Cassity14]

I can't see how this would have ever been the case. They made the pick prior to LeBron announcing his decision. Once that happened, everything changed. They were making a trade for Love no matter what.

And, ugh...I still think Jabari Parker is going to be the best of the 3

Every time I watch a different one of the three I walk away thinking that player will be the best. They're all studs barring injuries. We lament having the top pick in the Bennett draft but that is made up for by having the top pick of those guys.

I, like you, have no idea how we can think that trade doesn't get made regardless. It's been all but 100% confirmed that trading for Love was part of the initial pitch to get LeBron to come back.

 

[Jordan]

I can't see how this would have ever been the case. They made the pick prior to LeBron announcing his decision. Once that happened, everything changed. They were making a trade for Love no matter what.

And, ugh...I still think Jabari Parker is going to be the best of the 3

Every time I watch a different one of the three I walk away thinking that player will be the best. They're all studs barring injuries. We lament having the top pick in the Bennett draft but that is made up for by having the top pick of those guys.

I, like you, have no idea how we can think that trade doesn't get made regardless. It's been all but 100% confirmed that trading for Love was part of the initial pitch to get LeBron to come back.

Interesting article on ESPN Insider about this today... I kind of agree with @Rich here, though. Ever since Giannis moved to point - and even more with Delly - Jabari looks like he could be a star playmaking four. Although, I really like Wiggins a lot too. These three are all going to be great players, it may just take them a bit longer than it did LBJ, Melo, Bosh, etc.

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...aukee-bucks-jabari-parker-better-nba-prospect

Kevin Pelton: Chad, the 2014 NBA draft discussion was dominated by one question: Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker? Two-plus years later, as both players are progressing toward making good on the potential they showed as college freshmen, the question still remains relevant.

So, with all due respect to the other elite prospects from 2014 (Joel Embiid, whose return to health we discussed last week), let's revisit that debate now.

Who has more star potential?


Pre-draft expectations
Pelton: First off, to set the stage, let's go back to that draft. What did scouts like about Parker and Wiggins, what questions did they have, and what ultimately led the Cleveland Cavaliers to take Wiggins over Parker before subsequently trading him to the Minnesota Timberwolves as the centerpiece of the package for All-Star Kevin Love?

Ford: Parker started his high school career as the No. 1 player in his class. He received considerable hype as a high school freshman with a number of media outlets and scouts wondering whether he was the next big NBA superstar. However, a foot injury suffered over the summer before his senior season, combined with the rise of Wiggins -- who reclassified from the high school class of 2014 to 2013 -- helped Wiggins leapfrog Parker.

While Parker had the superior offensive basketball skills, Wiggins' elite athleticism and ability to defend multiple positions really intrigued scouts. Parker's lack of elite explosiveness and questions about whom he'd guard in the NBA were his main weaknesses. For Wiggins, the concerns primarily centered on his shooting and some passivity offensively at Kansas.

By draft night, virtually every team in the league had settled on Wiggins as the top pick. Upside matters at the top, and most teams felt his ceiling would be higher than Parker's, although it should be noted that, had Embiid not been injured in a pre-draft workout, he likely would've been the No. 1 pick.

There was at least one team that wasn't on the "Wiggins for No. 1" bandwagon, though. Sources on the Milwaukee Bucks told me before the draft that they preferred Parker to Wiggins. The Bucks felt that he had a stronger work ethic and greater leadership skills than Wiggins. They also felt that he'd be the superior offensive player, a bigger need for them at the time. Had the Bucks had the No. 1 pick, I think Parker would've been the choice.

Before the draft, which player measured out statistically as the better prospect, Kevin?

Pelton: Parker had the substantially better WARP projection by virtue of his superior scoring. Parker used a higher percentage of Duke's plays (32.7 percent) than Wiggins did at Kansas (26.3) and was equally efficient as a scorer. Yet I put Wiggins higher in my subjective draft rankings -- albeit both behind Dante Exum and Marcus Smart, who had the best WARP projection in the draft -- because of his wing defense and concerns about Parker's defense in the pros.

That's maybe an interesting place to turn the discussion to where the scouting reports and statistical projections have been right and wrong about these two players, since Wiggins has lived up to scouts' expectations as a scorer but has yet to do so at the defensive end.

How do they stack up now?
Ford: I actually think Wiggins has exceeded scouts' expectations as a scorer. Remember, the knock from the media and from scouts was that Wiggins was too passive offensively. He wasn't selfish or aggressive enough. At the age of 21 he's already a top-10 scorer in the league (averaging 26.3 points per game) and just hung a career-high 47 points on the Lakers on Sunday night. Even more surprising, Wiggins is shooting a red-hot 55 percent from 3.

Those numbers aren't going to stay that high, and we're dealing with a small sample size this season, but I don't think there's any question about his scoring ability or offensive aggressiveness.

I do think Wiggins has been a disappointment in all the other areas where we expected him to shine, especially on defense. His real plus-minus (RPM) ranking last season defensively was a major disappointment. He showed the physical tools and the willingness to defend at Kansas.

What's the issue, Kevin?

Pelton: Yeah, it's safe to say Wiggins' shooting is going to regress. The confidence interval on a 31-shot sample like Wiggins currently has from 3 is about 18 percent in either direction. (Which, I suppose, does mean he could really be a 70 percent shooter. But probably not.)

Beyond that, Wiggins has kept increasing his usage rate, which now ranks 14th in the league at 30.8 percent. He's also drawing more fouls than ever, improving what has probably been his best NBA skill.

Yet you're right that Wiggins hasn't yet shown improvement this season in the nonscoring areas of his game. Given his athleticism, it's hard to understand why Wiggins gets so few steals (four this season), blocks (four) and rebounds (his defensive rebound percentage is below average for a guard, let alone a player spending so much time at small forward).

Last season, Timberwolves color analyst Jim Petersen pointed out that too often Wiggins wasn't in a defensive stance and ready to make a play off the ball, which explained the discrepancy between his mostly good one-on-one defense and his poor off-ball defense.

I hoped Tom Thibodeau's arrival would force Wiggins into better defensive habits. So far that doesn't seem to be the case. Minnesota's defensive rating ranks 22nd in the league, and the Timberwolves are allowing 3.2 fewer points per 100 possessions with Wiggins on the bench, per NBA.com/Stats. That number is likely to fluctuate, but it matches up with what Wiggins' individual stats are telling us.

What have you seen this season from Parker?

Ford: He's having the best season of his career, but I think he has been a less dominant offensive player than the Bucks had hoped. He's a bit caught between positions, and that shows on both ends of the floor. As a wing, he's not quite the shooter or ball creator Milwaukee needs. As a 4, he has proved to be a mismatch problem offensively but a liability as a rebounder and defender.

The fact that Giannis Antetokounmpo has the ball in his hands so much has limited what Parker does a little, I think. I don't know whether that will be a permanent problem. They're both young and will continue to figure out how to play together, but he has looked more dominant when Matthew Dellavedovaruns the point.

Carmelo Anthony career path than the DeMar DeRozan or Rudy Gay comps thrown out by statistical analysts. So I'd take my chances with Wiggins.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Can't believe we took Anthony Bennett instead

Embiid, with a broken foot, was no less effective than Bennett. Seriously.

 

[Zog]

Embiid is great to watch, I hope he stays healthy. Unfortunately, I don't think he will until he learns how to play under control. Right now he plays so recklessly.

 

[Cavatt]

Embiid, with a broken foot, was no less effective than Bennett. Seriously.

I was kidding by the way. I know they weren't in the same draft. Still looks like the top 5 in 2013 were pretty bad

 

[PedroFlu]

Every time I watch a different one of the three I walk away thinking that player will be the best. They're all studs barring injuries. We lament having the top pick in the Bennett draft but that is made up for by having the top pick of those guys.

I, like you, have no idea how we can think that trade doesn't get made regardless. It's been all but 100% confirmed that trading for Love was part of the initial pitch to get LeBron to come back.

It was part of the initial pitch, but at that point they knew they were getting Wiggins.

LeBron has never played with anything close to a player of Embiid's characteristics, and he is so basketball conscious I would be willing to bet he wouldn't demand a trade for Love if Embiid is drafted and is healthy.

Anyway, just a fun thought to have.

 

[cavsfever]

if this guy can stay fully healthy he will be an all-time great. He is INCREDIBLY raw, only been playing organized basketball for a few years, clearly doesn't know how to use his skills or his size, and he is already looking crazy good. His per-36 numbers are approximately 29 points on 20 FGA and almost 4 blocks. Of course they also include over 6 TO and over 5 fouls per 36 -- that's the raw part.

 

[David.]

Man was it difficult watching us defend their point, and emiid abs okhafor.. I know 5/14, but he's young and slot of those shots could have gone either way..

Credit to tt for his defense.. it was a battle for both of them