John Beilein: Continuing his education

[neversurrender]

There also may be a world where he is a good developmental coach to a point... like maybe he makes good college players look like great college players, but struggles to develop payers to the point where they can play in the NBA.

I have *never* been a fan of system coaches. It's actually why I liked Ty Lue the first year-and-a-half and disliked Blatt. With Lue, our offense and defensive strategies changed every round. Blatt, meanwhile, struggled to get the players to buy into his system. Obviously Lue got worse, but unless your Pop or have Steph Curry, there are basically no successful system coaches in the NBA.

I like Beilein's philosophy and I think he's analytics friendly. That's why I support the hire. But I would be lying if I said I had no concerns. He definitely has a "system" and he does not produce a lot of producing NBA players. I am honestly interested to see how this works.

And, just to be clear, "ball movement" or "motion offenses" are totally different than being a "system coach."

 

[NMCav]

I believe Juice put that one to bed.. He initially posted that those guys would not be back, and then after a misleading article came out, he reconfirmed that Longabardi and Posey are gone. Sounds like they're building a completely new staff around Beilein and Bickerstaff, and still making hires probably.

Okay was just double checking because the Cavs offcial website has Beilein as the HC, Bickerstaff as the AHC, Then has 4 assistants listed as Lang, Longabardi, Posey, Gottleib. Just wanted to make sure Longabardi wasn't coming back, didn't care either way on Posey. I wanted a completely new staff though so this is good news.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Okay was just double checking because the Cavs offcial website has Beilein as the HC, Bickerstaff as the AHC, Then has 4 assistants listed as Lang, Longabardi, Posey, Gottleib. Just wanted to make sure Longabardi wasn't coming back, didn't care either way on Posey. I wanted a completely new staff though so this is good news.

I'm a little surprised nobody has talked about new assistant coach Antonio Lang being a former Cavalier. Back in the days of powder blue lightening bolts across jerseys, Lang was a member of Mike Fratello's bench bunch as Danny Ferry's backup at power forward.

 

[TheAdmin]

Okay was just double checking because the Cavs offcial website has Beilein as the HC, Bickerstaff as the AHC, Then has 4 assistants listed as Lang, Longabardi, Posey, Gottleib. Just wanted to make sure Longabardi wasn't coming back, didn't care either way on Posey. I wanted a completely new staff though so this is good news.

I can confirm that neither, Longabardi nor Posey have been with the team at all this offseason.

 

[TheAdmin]

The only player that I'm aware of that really liked Longo was Tristan.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I can confirm that neither, Longabardi nor Posey have been with the team at all this offseason.

 

[rastamon87]

The only player that I'm aware of that really liked Longo was Tristan.

Offtopic... Any insights on how the new coaching staff view Zizic moving forward? Curious if they are leaning towards a more traditional center in Zizic or undersized ones in TT/Love...

 

[sailfish]

I believe Juice put that one to bed.. He initially posted that those guys would not be back, and then after a misleading article came out, he reconfirmed that Longabardi and Posey are gone. Sounds like they're building a completely new staff around Beilein and Bickerstaff, and still making hires probably.

During her interview, Gottlieb referenced the other coaches by name, one of whom was Dan (Geriot), so it appears he will be back. I don’t know how many assistants Beilein intends to have, but there could still be another hire or two?

 

[I'mWithDan]

There also may be a world where he is a good developmental coach to a point... like maybe he makes good college players look like great college players, but struggles to develop payers to the point where they can play in the NBA.

I have *never* been a fan of system coaches. It's actually why I liked Ty Lue the first year-and-a-half and disliked Blatt. With Lue, our offense and defensive strategies changed every round. Blatt, meanwhile, struggled to get the players to buy into his system. Obviously Lue got worse, but unless your Pop or have Steph Curry, there are basically no successful system coaches in the NBA.

I like Beilein's philosophy and I think he's analytics friendly. That's why I support the hire. But I would be lying if I said I had no concerns. He definitely has a "system" and he does not produce a lot of producing NBA players. I am honestly interested to see how this works.

And, just to be clear, "ball movement" or "motion offenses" are totally different than being a "system coach."

He succeeded in a sport rife with people rampantly cheating....even more so than football.....and he didn't just succeed but did so running a clean program, many times cherry picking nobody HS kids and turning them in to the best versions of themselves. Most of the kids he recruited were outside top 100 types. He got a few higher ranked kids but he never could get elite HS players to not take bags and come to Michigan.

I don't think it's fair to say "he does not produce a lot of producing NBA players". Michigan was a god damn NBA graveyard for more than a decade. From 1999-2009, they only had 2 players drafted. Beilein breathed new life in the program and saw 12 players drafted that he coached. 8 of the 12 were 1st round picks. Only 1 of those 12 was a 5-star player in high school. Levert was plucked out of a MAC recruiting class, Hardaway only had a single "high major" offer from Minnesota, Duncan Robinson had no D-1 offers and Beilein took him as a D-III transfer.....he's now on an NBA roster. He found Stauskas in Canada, Wagner in Germany. It's a testament to his scouting eye in all honesty. How many college coaches have had 12 players drafted in their tenure at a single school? How many have had 8 first rounders? Probably not many, who aren't cheating through their teeth.....and I can't think of a single one who has churned out that many NBA players without getting top 25 McDonalds AA kids on a yearly basis.

His "system" is entirely overblown IMO. He really only has a system of shooting and player movement. He has evolved as the college game has evolved and if you look at what Michigan was doing year to year, it was always changing. He was a master at being a step ahead of trends and he always catered his offense to maximize his players abilities. If he had guys who could ISO, they ran NBA sets. If they had great off ball talents, they ran a lot more motion. If they had both, they diversified. The best way to get a sampling of this is to go watch film of their 2011, 2014 and 2018 teams.....it's just crazy how different they are schematically.

He may not be a good NBA coach but I don't think it will be for the reasons you are worried about.

 

[TheAdmin]

Offtopic... Any insights on how the new coaching staff view Zizic moving forward? Curious if they are leaning towards a more traditional center in Zizic or undersized ones in TT/Love...

I've heard that if Love is on the roster he will be your starting 5.

 

[dark2332]

I've heard that if Love is on the roster he will be your starting 5.

It seems to me, Kevin Love was rather upset playing the 5 full-time a few years ago. For a guy who seldom complained, this was one item that he openly complained about.

I'd have to believe this hints a little that he won't be on the roster.

 

[Los216]

Who's gonna play the 4 then? Nance? Wouldn't Nance be the 5 when he's playing with Love? If TT is still here he is strictly the 5. So we don't have a starting 4 and we don't have enough wings.

 

[rastamon87]

I've heard that if Love is on the roster he will be your starting 5.

Not really a fan of being undersized at guard positions because of the 2 pointguard front system plus being undersized at center with Love (if Nance is playing pf he is kinda undersized too).... It's sounding like the Cavs would be on a size disadvantage at 4 positions most of the time...

Might be a brutal year for defense again... Even with a good defensive system its very difficult to overcome that amount of size disparity...

 

[NMCav]

Not really a fan of being undersized at guard positions because of the 2 pointguard front system plus being undersized at center with Love (if Nance is playing pf he is kinda undersized too).... It's sounding like the Cavs would be on a size disadvantage at 4 positions most of the time...

Might be a brutal year for defense again... Even with a good defensive system its very difficult to overcome that amount of size disparity...

Into today's NBA Nance really isn't undersized at PF, hes 6-9 with a 7-1 wingspan. Also has a 9'0'' standing reach which is slightly higher then average. This isn't the early 00's or 90's where PF's are taller and stronger. Its 2019 and PF's are around Nance's size and athletic.

I am not calling Nance a good defender, I am also not arguing the defense will be brutal. Just pointing out for a PF in today's game Nance is not undersized.

 

[bigfoot5415]

If we go:
Garland
Sexton
Osman
Windler
Love

I just may lose it watching us give up 140ppg.