Kevin Love Trade Ideas

[Flight479]

Yep. Bosh was an All Star low post player in Toronto with a very high usage rate. He had great agility and length to defend out to the three point line, was an average rim protector for a skinny power forward, and tenacious rebounder. He had a nice jump shot that was underused in games, averaging about .5 threes a game.

It took Bosh two years to begin to play like he does now: A stretch 5 who switches from the center to small forward on defense. His three point accuracy and shooting efficiency only reached the Kevin Love level after LeBron left.

The difference here is that Bosh had the tools to play the C full time. He had the length and IQ to plau that position. Love does not. Bosh seemed to struggle because he wasn't willing to fully commit. He eventually did. But that's why Bosh could be viewed as more valuable. I don't think Love is a trash player compared to Bosh, don't see them as equals either, but Love's value goes up when he's only asked to play the 4.

 

[Flight479]

Where did I say Love was trash and where did I mention players to replace him??? Just pointed out that if compared to Bosh, the PnR defense is a big difference between the 2 and that this is a really really useful skill to have in the NBA and even more so in this NBA with a team like GS. I also mentioned that I can see him improve this year with the confidence coming from a championship and a full training camp...but it seems your answer was made before reading.

The Cavs need Love to convert the easy shots or great position he gets inside and I didn't see it during the PO...He shot well from 3, rebounded ok (and no he wasn't the best rebounder during the finals, Bron was) and made effort on defense but whatever we say, he is not a defensive savant, even though people want to always mention the "STOP" to show he is...he did great there and was an integral part of the Game 7 success but that shouldn't stop the worries about his PnR defense.

Now, I love the player and the team consistency and hope he takes the same leap as Bosh in his 3rd year in terms of fitting in...but if he doesn't, I do believe the team has to look for a trade that brings them an edge to counter what GS did. I mean if you read Griffin's comments, he highlights the fact that they might hv found out how to use Love and that only meant that till the Finals, they weren't really sure it was possible. Thats how I read it at least.

As I mentioned before Love just showed more effort. Unless they told him to dive to the rim when the ball is in the air, which I would think he could figure out on his own. For whatever reason, Love tried harder in Gm 7. Most likely because that was it, and because he was getting destroyed by the general public. What's good is that he did show some fire and competitiveness, because I've always questioned that about him.

 

[Randolphkeys]

The difference here is that Bosh had the tools to play the C full time. He had the length and IQ to plau that position. Love does not. Bosh seemed to struggle because he wasn't willing to fully commit. He eventually did. But that's why Bosh could be viewed as more valuable. I don't think Love is a trash player compared to Bosh, don't see them as equals either, but Love's value goes up when he's only asked to play the 4.

Look, I'm pretty realistic on Love. His length is going to be an issue against true centers, especially if he has any lingering back issues. As Chris Parker alluded to, I don't think we saw the best of Kevin Love last year until the end because he was so limited in sharpening his actual skills while rehabbing his shoulder. This season we will see what Love can do with a healthy offseason. I take a realistic approach because fantasy trades can excite an easily excitable fan base... but then reality hits and a team needs to learn how to play together.

I disagree entirely with your assessment of Love's IQ. That has been one of his great assets dating back to UCLA. I also believe you have been viewing Bosh with rose colored glasses. His rim protection is pedestrian for his position, he only moved to center at the very end of LeBron's run in Miami because of his lack of physicality, and let's not lose sight of the very real possibility that the reoccuring blood clots in his lungs could end his career.

As for the crap I've read about Okafor or another 76ers center for Love... I can't believe how bad this fan perception of Love has gotten if a bunch of career flops are being considered. If you saw any 76ers games last year, you know Okafor isn't close to an injured Love. Do you want trades just because you are bored? That's how it comes off.

 

[Derek]

As I mentioned before Love just showed more effort. Unless they told him to dive to the rim when the ball is in the air, which I would think he could figure out on his own. For whatever reason, Love tried harder in Gm 7. Most likely because that was it, and because he was getting destroyed by the general public. What's good is that he did show some fire and competitiveness, because I've always questioned that about him.

I always thought it was funny when people questioned Kevin's heart without any real evidence besides the fact that it fit the narrative they were trying to push. The guy has busted his ass throughout his 2 years here, and done everything he can to make this work.

He was arguably our best player in game 1, and if Kyrie and LeBron produce at even a fraction of what they did the rest of the series, we likely jump out to a 1-0 lead. Then, the concussion happened. Anybody who has had a concussion knows that it takes a while before you feel right again. He was back on the court 5 days later. I guarantee he wasn't 100%, but he continued to bust his ass and make positive contributions. His game 7 performance was the gritty type of play that every champion needs. We lose that game handily without him.

I'm excited to see what Love can do next year given his first full off-season with LeBron and the Cavs.

 

[cavsfever]

Look, I'm pretty realistic on Love. His length is going to be an issue against true centers, especially if he has any lingering back issues. As Chris Parker alluded to, I don't think we saw the best of Kevin Love last year until the end because he was so limited in sharpening his actual skills while rehabbing his shoulder. This season we will see what Love can do with a healthy offseason.

The one thing about this analysis is that Love started off great last year, then actually seemed to decline. He had a fantastic November, going 20 points-12 boards in 35 MPG, shooting over 40% from 3 and over 50% from 2. Then he seemed to fall off.

I agree Love is a good player and the extra year should help him to mesh with the team. But he just does not seem to be anything like the player we thought we were getting. We thought we were getting a top ten player or at least a perennial all-star. What we have is a power forward who averages around 15-10, is an unreliable post option offensively, makes up for it by being a good but not great 3 point shooter, is a good but not dominant rebounder, and is limited defensively with no rim protection capacity but can be an average team defender when he tries hard. That's fine and all, if you add it all up he's an above average player at the power forward position. But we need something closer to all-star level performance if we are going to beat Golden State.

 

[Randolphkeys]

@cavsfever I posted my opinion about Love's November in the cavs talk section. Last year, Love wasn't a full clear until the season started. LeBron put his offense second to give Love the same looks he got in Minnesota until Love regained some confidence. I still didn't think he was playing his best basketball, even if the stats look better than later in the year. He wasn't in very good shape in November. He definitely didn't have his upper body strength yet. The dip in his stats came when Kyrie was working his way back from the knee. I'm sure some people don't want to hear me complain about Kyrie as Love's scapegoat, that's not my point. The coaches had to work two stars back by the time the playoffs started, and they managed to do it in the nick of time... but the game stats fluctuate as they were both getting back to 100%.

While I'm posting in the trade section anyways, when Ibaka was very quietly being shopped at the deadline I did give a Love trade a moments pause. He is the interior defender with shooting range many of the Love Haters were looking for. I was a little surprised when he got traded to Orlando that you guys were hating on him as well. His real age will always be debated, there were some good points made on that.

 

[cavsfever]

I also sort of wondered about whether a Love for Ibaka trade made sense. The age issue was a surprise for me as well when people brought it up after the Orlando trade -- recently he has not quite been the ferocious defender he once was, but I chalked that up to problems with defining roles at OKC.

 

[Rich]

Some have speculated that the Bulls would entertain a deal with the TWolves if it included Wiggins. Ironically the Cavs traded Wiggins for Love. Except in that case the TWolves were the motivated sellers.

That you don't think we could swap Love for Butler (directly or indirectly through a 3rd team) tells me you believe Kevin has lost significant value. If that's the case (and I'm not saying it isn't) then it seems to me our focus should be on rebuilding his value before even starting to entertain deals for him.

This only makes sense if you pretend all teams are willing to trade all players for exactly the same things. But that's no the case, because different teams have different needs and are heading in different directions.

What if the Bulls don't want a highly paid player if they trade Butler? What if they prefer a young guy, on a rookie contract, and draft picks? That doesn't mean Love has lost value, it just means the Bulls aren't looking to win right now, like the Cavs were.

That said, I was never, ever a person who thought Love was the best power forward in the league. I got in arguments with people after the trade was made because I didn't think he was better than Bosh, let alone the best PF in the league. And understand, I was 100% behind the Love trade. But I always felt his defense kept him from being the best of the best in Minnesota. I never thought he was a top 5 player in the league. So, with that in mind, I think Jimmy Butler last season had a better season than Kevin Love has ever had.

And it's why I continue to shrug off these Butler for Love ideas. They've got the better player, younger player. If they move him, it's because they are giving up and doing a full rebuild.

 

[Just Checkin]

I mean that's fine if you think Bosh was a better player back then but how good did people think Love was in Minnesota

His numbers really weren't inflated primarily on being on a bad team imo. The team played very, very well when he was on the floor and fell off a cliff when he wasn't. They drafted terribly in his tenure and the best player on that team after him was Rubio.

He also had to play in the tougher Western Conference so he could never have those early first round exits that everyone wanted him to have early on in his career. The weight loss was a big factor in my eyes, he lost way too much weight before becoming Cav and if the reports are true, he seems to be in a better spot physically and hopefully it's closer to that 13-14 version of himself. You know, that guy who left a team that went on to lose almost 70 games afterwards.

 

[Rich]

I mean that's fine if you think Bosh was a better player back then but how good did people think Love was in Minnesota

His numbers really weren't inflated primarily on being on a bad team imo. The team played very, very well when he was on the floor and fell off a cliff when he wasn't. They drafted terribly in his tenure and the best player on that team after him was Rubio.

He also had to play in the tougher Western Conference so he could never have those early first round exits that everyone wanted him to have early on in his career. The weight loss was a big factor in my eyes, he lost way too much weight before becoming Cav and if the reports are true, he seems to be in a better spot physically and hopefully it's closer to that 13-14 version of himself. You know, that guy who left a team that went on to lose almost 70 games afterwards.

Shouldn't that be the case for any good player? Particularly one who is the only all-star on his team? It would be a terribly worrisome sign if the Wolves were worse with Love on the floor considering they had no other star power. That should just be a given.

People pining for old, fatter Kevin Love..I just don't get it. The things he did in Minnesota are no longer what is required of him on this team.

He gets bigger, he gets slower, he defends worse. I'm sorry, but his post touches are always, always going to be limited with LeBron and Kyrie on the team. Always. I do not get the desire to see him get big again. This isn't Minnesota and he's not the primary focus of the offense.

 

[Just Checkin]

I don't think I made any reference to the fat version of Love, I was purely focusing on the 13-14 version.

Also yes, you'd expect good players to make a great positive impact on their team but looking at the stats they were vastly lower with him off the court. The Wolves played like a playoff team back then in a statistical sense, the rest of the roster couldn't even garner replacement level outputs. It's moreso an argument that his numbers were not totally inflated, but actually reflective of a dynamic player who isn't just a good numbers on a bad team guy he has been labeled to be.

And while we may not need 13-14 Love, I think we'd all like to see him shoot a bit better in our next playoff run, which I think he has the potential to if he can increase his 2pt% and keep his 3pt% around what he has historically been doing in the playoffs. And that increase in production would really end a lot of this nonsense.

Lemme just add that Love came to the Cavaliers really, really skinny, and his defense was probably at its worst then. He gained some weight over the course of the season and into the following one and was able to play better on that end.

 

[Rich]

I didn't think he had inflated numbers. He was a great offensive player and a great rebounder.

I simply thought his lack of effectiveness on defense took him out of the running of being a top 5 player. Much like Harden, honestly.

I also think he changed his body for a reason. Both for his own health and to fit better with the team. I don't expect him to change it back and, after winning a title and succeeding, I'm don't think he should.

 

[Just Checkin]

It's not a dramatic change from where he is now to what he was in his best year.

I see what you're saying, I'm not really going by your arguments when I discuss Love though, moreso the drivel I have to hear and read all the time

 

[Rich]

I get it.

I'm the very rare breed that A) Didn't think Kevin Love was a top 5 player, B) Pretty much expected exactly what he's given us and C) Still wanted to do the trade.

I am quite content with how things have turned out.

 

[Snarly]

We Fucking need Gay and love to keep Love! I mean JR laid thy pipe line for the Gay! Also I would love Rubio! A Gay, Love, Rubio is always a winning team... #GayLoveRubio