Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[gourimoko]

And we'd be idiots to do it.

Seriously, in what universe does 1 year of a petulant Leonard have more value than Love, Cedi and Doncic on a rookie contract???

Just an awful, awful deal for the Cavs, but it'd be well-deserving of our reputation.

Err... you wouldn't do it if you believed it were only for one year.

You'd only do it with assurances from Kawhi via LeBron that he was signing for at least a 2+1 after the season (to reach 10 year veteran status).

My post was more about the how though, not the why.

 

[Dawg4L]

The Cavs have 2 plans that will be executed in July. When the LeBron stuff is settled, Love will be departing in either plan.

Haha way to go out on a limb there. Care to explain?

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

You'd only do it with assurances from Kawhi via LeBron that he was signing for at least a 2+1 after the season (to reach 10 year veteran status).

...which we're not getting. Kawhi is telling the whole planet that he's playing for the Lakers next year. He's not leaving a world-class organization like the Spurs just to commit to a toxic landfill like the Cavs, so I don't even think we can file this under "wishful thinking" status.

 

[gourimoko]

...which we're not getting.

If we don't then we keep it moving; and if we do, then we'd know that a trade could make sense.

In 2014 many of us said Kevin Love would never give assurances to the Cavs, and why would he? Turns out, he was working with LeBron the entire time, and had a handshake agreement to sign a 5-year contract in Cleveland. So we had assurances that trading Wiggins meant at least 5-6 years of Kevin Love. Had Love never given those assurances, the Cavs would've assuredly kept Wiggins.

The same was true of LeBron and Paul George just last season, where George angled his way out of Indiana, but the trade leaked and Indiana balked at the last minute refusing to trade him to the Cavs a potential conference rival. That worked out for Indiana in the end, but at the time, Love looked like the better deal.

We've seen players do these kinds of things regularly, in the past two seasons, you also had Draymond with Durant and Harden with CP3.

So the point is that it's simply too early to know what information we may or may not get.

Kawhi is telling the whole planet that he's playing for the Lakers next year. He's not leaving a world-class organization like the Spurs just to commit to a toxic landfill like the Cavs, so I don't even think we can file this under "wishful thinking" status.

You might want to catch up on why Kawhi wants out of the Spurs...

I don't think Kawhi would agree, nor would his "group," with your assessment of the Spurs franchise. I think that'd likely go for a few current and former Spurs players. Hell, I don't think the Spurs beat writer would agree with the framing of the Spurs as a "world-class organization" as it relates to their current top two players and how they feel about the Spurs.

Suffice to say, Kawhi Leonard, the so-called Anti-LeBron, is requesting a trade. He's lowering his trade value by singling out the Lakers. He might be posturing, he might not be. We do not know. We won't know for some time.

But it's hardly "wishful thinking" to talk about a player who has requested a trade while we sit on an All-Star, a lottery pick, and two young very good prospects in Cedi and Nance along with a massive expiring contract in Hill to boot.

Not many teams would or should risk trading for Kawhi, for multiple reasons; however the Cavs might make sense, so it's definitely worth discussing.

 

[billmac91]

...which we're not getting. Kawhi is telling the whole planet that he's playing for the Lakers next year. He's not leaving a world-class organization like the Spurs just to commit to a toxic landfill like the Cavs, so I don't even think we can file this under "wishful thinking" status.

In fairness, a player is stupid to declare their intended landing spot. It neuters the team they want to go to because they then have to pony up extra assets to land said player.

Like, if Kawhi really wanted to be a Laker next year, he’d have been better off saying he wanted to be traded to the Cavs. Then let the Lakers come to the table out of left field as the team with little leverage because they’re only getting a 1 year rental.

My point being, if Kawhi and his agents were smart, and they wanted to land in CLE, Boston, or Philly, their best route to do that, to make sure the team they ultimately got dealt to, would be to say “I want the Lakers”. Why weaken the hand of your future team?

 

[avs2000]

If Doncic is there at #4, and we could potentially trade Hill+8 for Parsons+4; then you've got Doncic+Love+Cedi for Kawhi Leonard.

That's a damn good offer... and beats Jaylen Brown plus salary, or Markelle Fultz + 10th pick. It also beats Lonzo, Ingram and Kuzma IMHO.

The Celtics and Sixers could top it, but, they'd be taking a huge risk. Cavs would be blowing their load, but .. we might be able to get another star like Kemba by just taking back insane amounts of salary.

Spurs would have time to flip Love by the deadline or re-sign him in the offseason.

I think they'd have to take that offer...

If we end up with luka I am not moving him for one year of Leonard. People are nuts

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

In fairness, a player is stupid to declare their intended landing spot. It neuters the team they want to go to because they then have to pony up extra assets to land said player.

I'm not following that. Why would a team be required to pay extra in a trade to acquire a guy who wants to come there? Hasn't the argument been that the only way we could acquire PG is for him to insist we're the team he wants? Doesn't that give us more leverage?

Like, if Kawhi really wanted to be a Laker next year, he’d have been better off saying he wanted to be traded to the Cavs. Then let the Lakers come to the table out of left field as the team with little leverage because they’re only getting a 1 year rental.

Again, I don't get this. If a player says "I want to go to the Lakers", that discourages other teams from paying a high price for that player because they are worried that he will bolt after one year. That reduces the offers they are willing to make, which means the team he is targeting doesn't have to pay as much to have the "best offer". That actually helps the Lakers, because offers from other teams will be lower.

Now, there are two other problems with the Lakers trying to acquire Leonard, but neither of them have anything to do with them being his preferred team: 1) they lack good moveable assets, and 2) Spurs don't want to trade within their conference, and perhaps to the Lakers in particular. But those problems exist regardless of whether or not the Lakers are the team for whom he expresses a preference.

 

[billmac91]

I'm not following that. Why would a team be required to pay extra in a trade to acquire a guy who wants to come there? Hasn't the argument been that the only way we could acquire PG is for him to insist we're the team he wants? Doesn't that give us more leverage?



Again, I don't get this. If a player says "I want to go to the Lakers", that discourages other teams from paying a high price for that player because they are worried that he will bolt after one year. That reduces the offers they are willing to make, which means the team he is targeting doesn't have to pay as much to have the "best offer". That actually helps the Lakers, because offers from other teams will be lower.

Now, there are two other problems with the Lakers trying to acquire Leonard, but neither of them have anything to do with them being his preferred team: 1) they lack good moveable assets, and 2) Spurs don't want to trade within their conference, and perhaps to the Lakers in particular. But those problems exist regardless of whether or not the Lakers are the team for whom he expresses a preference.

I’m of the opinion it weakens the negotiating power of the declared team. In this case, knowing Kawhi “wants” to be in LA, it forces the Lakers to come up with a offer under added public pressure to close the deal.

The peripheral teams all come to the table with the added risk of watching Kawhi leave after the season.....which isn’t the Spurs problem, but I believe it gives the outside teams more working room. I also think it helps coming from the outside-in bc the Spurs will make it known what is on the table from the Lakers which makes the decision to proceed forward or back out more clear.

PG and Kyrie are interesting case studies.....PG allegedly wanted LA last year but also approved a trade to CLE and expected to be moved here. He ended up in OKC.

Kyrie had a trade list of the Spurs, Heat, Knicks, and Minny. He ended up in Boston.

I believe announcing the team you want to get to creates a dynamic that complicates it and makes things more difficult for that team. The smarter strategy, IMO, is announcing you want out, but not declaring a team at all publicly. If I’m Kawhi and I truly want to get to LA, I’d announce my intention to leave but secretly work in coordination with the Lakers management team. Not announce it publicly through 4 NBA beat reporters from his camp, that now has Lakers fans salivating and demanding Pelinka and Magic “get it done by any means necessary”. It puts the Lakers in a harder spot, which is why I believe it weakens them at the negotiating table.

Just playing this all through theoretically....if Kawhi and LeBron had reached an agreement to play in CLE assuming a trade could be made, I think the smartest strategy would be to:

1. Declare intention to leave in FA
2. Announce a “favorite” team as a diversion
3. Have Koby/Dan know Kawhi’s actual intention of wanting to be in CLE so they can play up the “risk” they’re taking in the deal
4. See what the Lakers actually put on the table in an offer bc you know the Spurs will make that known by the end of the negotiations so CLE can match or beat it.

Just my opinion after seeing this stuff play out last few years.....

 

[cavsfever]

McMenamin: we are not shopping Love/not interested in trading him, no plans to trade anybody, don't think we can get Kawhi

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23856392/cleveland-cavaliers-covet-kevin-love-next-season

The Cavaliers are not actively shopping All-Star forward Kevin Love heading into Thursday's NBA draft, multiple sources told ESPN on Wednesday. Furthermore, regardless of what decision LeBron James makes about his future in Cleveland, the Cavs have interest in keeping Love next season, sources said....

Cleveland, owner of the No. 8 pick in the draft, will make the selection without knowing James' intention for next season, multiple sources told ESPN. James is currently on vacation with his family, sources said. He has to inform the Cavs by June 29 whether he intends to opt out of the final year of his contract.

The Cavs are entering into the draft with the intention of making a selection that they will keep on their team next season. There is interest in finding a young playmaker to add to their veteran core, and Cleveland believes it will have the opportunity to choose from an available player pool that will include Collin Sexton, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Trae Young, Michael Porter Jr., Kevin Knox, Mikal Bridges and others.

Cleveland has inquired about the availability of San Antonio Spursforward Kawhi Leonard, but the franchise does not believe it has the realistic assets to convince the Spurs to deal them the former NBA Finals MVP, considering what other teams on the market can offer.
​

For what it's worth I think this attitude is a mistake

 

[arglebargle]

McMenamin: we are not shopping Love/not interested in trading him, no plans to trade anybody, don't think we can get Kawhi

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23856392/cleveland-cavaliers-covet-kevin-love-next-season

The Cavaliers are not actively shopping All-Star forward Kevin Love heading into Thursday's NBA draft, multiple sources told ESPN on Wednesday. Furthermore, regardless of what decision LeBron James makes about his future in Cleveland, the Cavs have interest in keeping Love next season, sources said....

Cleveland, owner of the No. 8 pick in the draft, will make the selection without knowing James' intention for next season, multiple sources told ESPN. James is currently on vacation with his family, sources said. He has to inform the Cavs by June 29 whether he intends to opt out of the final year of his contract.

The Cavs are entering into the draft with the intention of making a selection that they will keep on their team next season. There is interest in finding a young playmaker to add to their veteran core, and Cleveland believes it will have the opportunity to choose from an available player pool that will include Collin Sexton, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Trae Young, Michael Porter Jr., Kevin Knox, Mikal Bridges and others.

Cleveland has inquired about the availability of San Antonio Spursforward Kawhi Leonard, but the franchise does not believe it has the realistic assets to convince the Spurs to deal them the former NBA Finals MVP, considering what other teams on the market can offer.
​

For what it's worth I think this attitude is a mistake

Agreed. Unless the small chance of LeBron staying occurs, you need to ship Love out immediately.

 

[cavsfever]

Love Cedi and the 8th pick give you just enough so that you aren't tanking but still don't make the playoffs.

 

[Expensive Jet]

Love Cedi and the 8th pick give you just enough so that you aren't tanking but still don't make the playoffs.

And our pick flies down south to Atlanta

 

[Green Lantern]

McMenamin: we are not shopping Love/not interested in trading him, no plans to trade anybody, don't think we can get Kawhi

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23856392/cleveland-cavaliers-covet-kevin-love-next-season

The Cavaliers are not actively shopping All-Star forward Kevin Love heading into Thursday's NBA draft, multiple sources told ESPN on Wednesday. Furthermore, regardless of what decision LeBron James makes about his future in Cleveland, the Cavs have interest in keeping Love next season, sources said....

Cleveland, owner of the No. 8 pick in the draft, will make the selection without knowing James' intention for next season, multiple sources told ESPN. James is currently on vacation with his family, sources said. He has to inform the Cavs by June 29 whether he intends to opt out of the final year of his contract.

The Cavs are entering into the draft with the intention of making a selection that they will keep on their team next season. There is interest in finding a young playmaker to add to their veteran core, and Cleveland believes it will have the opportunity to choose from an available player pool that will include Collin Sexton, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Trae Young, Michael Porter Jr., Kevin Knox, Mikal Bridges and others.

Cleveland has inquired about the availability of San Antonio Spursforward Kawhi Leonard, but the franchise does not believe it has the realistic assets to convince the Spurs to deal them the former NBA Finals MVP, considering what other teams on the market can offer.
​

For what it's worth I think this attitude is a mistake

Don't you think that since they've had discussions that they know to a large degree what the Spurs want? "People need to understand if the Spurs do part with KL.. It's not going to be for a grocery coupon.

 

[avs2000]

Don't you think that since they've had discussions that they know to a large degree what the Spurs want? "People need to understand if the Spurs do part with KL.. It's not going to be for a grocery coupon.

no, they will take our whole store

 

[ACisKING]

I hope the Cavs “keep Love whether LeBron stays or leaves” is just posturing for your franchise’s sake. Peronally I believe trading Love is the right move regardless of what LeBron does. If LeBron stays, Love just isn’t the right number two option to compete against GSW. In fact I’m not convinced he’s a legitimate number two option on a championship contender at all. And he’s one of the Cavs’ few desirable assets to use to improve the team via trade. If LeBron leaves, trading Love for young players and/or picks is a no-brainer as it would help tanking and accelerate the rebuild. If Dan Gilbert genuinely believes in building around Kevin Love if LeBron leaves, then he is a bigger idiot than I thought.