Koby Altman

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Isn't it a first and 2 seconds?

Considering what the Cavs gave up to get Hill, what they turned him into is a pretty big deal.

I'm not sure who would give up a first for Hill. The Cavs were as desperate as it gets among contenders last season and they didn't give up anything of value for him. I agree that taking back the contracts was worth a first on its own, so Hill essentially brought in a pair of second round picks. If that's the case, Altman got the same value for Hill that he just got for Korver, which is pretty nice.

It's not an earth-shattering move, but it was a strong, prudent one. He's accumulating assets, which is all you can hope for him to do right now.

We got two 2nd rounders in that deal?

Regardless, Hill was not an expiring last year and we didn't need to clear cap space to sign another big FA in order to try to convince the greatest player in franchise history to stay.

Of course, you also need to find a 19m contract to get back in a trade, so it narrows down our options. I do think however that considering where the Cavfzs currently stand, the Bucks got off very lightly. Henson non factor because of his injury, Delly has been a non factor since he signed his contract and they get to dump their contracts for a very serviceable and the only loss is a highly protected first round pick that is years away from conveying?

For example, the pick that we traded for Korver had lighter protections on it, and in this particular trade we should get a much better return, no?

I just don't see why Koby should be praised here. I don't believe we maximized our return on the assets even in a vacuum, and in this scenario the return should have been greater than what we should have gotten in a vacuum.

If the protection were lighter to draft higher, then sure, but it's not.

There are probably more trades ahead and Koby needed to finalize the trade before some sort of a deadline?

 

[AussieCavFan]

A lot of praise for Koby and I don't understand why?

Bucks needed to clear cap space in order to sign another high level FA so they could contend and entice Giannis to stay. We give up a very serviceable player in Hill on a good contract and in return get two bad contracts in Delly and Henson and a highly protected 1st round pick (and a 2nd)? Hill by himself is worth a 1st to a desperate contender imo, and us absorbing Delly and Henson should both net us a 1st by themselves.

What am I missing? Is it because of Delly?

We basically just extend the money we are paying this year for Hill but instead we have Delly who is a better fit for our organisation and Henson who could be valuable big man depth. For taking on the extra year of salary we get a first and 2nd rounder. The fact is we were going to have to match salary anyway to make a Hill trade I think Koby did well taking on contracts that only have an extra year on them.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

We basically just extend the money we are paying this year for Hill but instead we have Delly who is a better fit for our organisation and Henson who could be valuable big man depth. For taking on the extra year of salary we get a first and 2nd rounder. The fact is we were going to have to match salary anyway to make a Hill trade I think Koby did well taking on contracts that only have an extra year on them.

I'm looking at it from the Bucks perspective more so than the Cavs. That's a much better deal for them than it is for the Cavs. They shed a shit ton of salary, and for that alone we should get a GOOD 1st round pick. They will have 50M in cap space if they wish.

If the Cavs wanted(and they do) to acquire a lot of salary for picks, then they should by all means aim their sights at high first round picks, and not waste the salary on late 1st round picks in 2021+++

Hill is not a bad player and will surely help the Bucks with spacing and secondary ball handling. He will fortify their second unit and for a contender that might be worth a late 1st by himself, IMHO.

Bottom line, I just don't see how Koby can be praised for such a deal unless we see good consecutive deals ahead using the pieces that we have acquired. I wanna see some slam dunk deals...it's time to use the desperation of contending teams to our advantage, like they did to us when we were contending - that's not it.

I believe it wasn't a good deal. The protections suck. We did them a huge favor.

 

[AussieCavFan]

I'm looking at it from the Bucks perspective more so than the Cavs. That's a much better deal for them than it is for the Cavs. They shed a shit ton of salary, and for that alone we should get a GOOD 1st round pick. They will have 50M in cap space if they wish.

If the Cavs wanted(and they do) to acquire a lot of salary for picks, then they should by all means aim their sights at high first round picks, and not waste the salary on late 1st round picks in 2021+++

Hill is not a bad player and will surely help the Bucks with spacing and secondary ball handling. He will fortify their second unit and for a contender that might be worth a late 1st by himself, IMHO.

Bottom line, I just don't see how Koby can be praised for such a deal unless we see good consecutive deals ahead using the pieces that we have acquired. I wanna see some slam dunk deals...it's time to use the desperation of contending teams to our advantage, like they did to us when we were contending - that's not it.

I believe it wasn't a good deal. The protections suck. We did them a huge favor.

So from the Bucks point of view they gain 20 mil of cap space next season and a backup guard who might have an ok impact off the bench.
Only team thats paying an end of first rounder for Hill the player is a top team desperate for a PG, Off the top of my head I dont really see a team that fits that description.
So Hill the player=2nd rounder.
Hill the cap space=end of 1st rounder.
Thats what we got essentially. The deal is fine.

It would be lovely to make a move for a higher pick but those desperate contending teams rarely own those.

Maybe we get a slightly better deal if we hold out longer but we took the guaranteed deal on the table, I like the deal personally so am fine with that.

 

[CBBI]

Altman is doing exactly what a GM should be doing during a clear rebuilding situation.

Jettison off all veterans on short contracts for younger veterans on slight longer contracts while acquiring as many draft picks as you can.

Nothing earth shattering. He’s doing exactly what he needs to do.

 

[inliner311]

We got two 2nd rounders in that deal?

Regardless, Hill was not an expiring last year and we didn't need to clear cap space to sign another big FA in order to try to convince the greatest player in franchise history to stay.

Of course, you also need to find a 19m contract to get back in a trade, so it narrows down our options. I do think however that considering where the Cavfzs currently stand, the Bucks got off very lightly. Henson non factor because of his injury, Delly has been a non factor since he signed his contract and they get to dump their contracts for a very serviceable and the only loss is a highly protected first round pick that is years away from conveying?

For example, the pick that we traded for Korver had lighter protections on it, and in this particular trade we should get a much better return, no?

I just don't see why Koby should be praised here. I don't believe we maximized our return on the assets even in a vacuum, and in this scenario the return should have been greater than what we should have gotten in a vacuum.

If the protection were lighter to draft higher, then sure, but it's not.

There are probably more trades ahead and Koby needed to finalize the trade before some sort of a deadline?

Koby wanted these contracts to be able to be included with another deal at the deadline so that's why it had to happen yesterday. Really I wouldn't be so concern with the protections on the pick. It's more about gaining tradable assets in general, the 1st rounder and 3 second rounders from both the Hill and Korver deal will help us make other trades. 2nd round picks can sway a trade to happen and we lacked any before these trades happened.

The contracts we got give us flexibility going forward. We got assets from Hills contract but it was a large expiring that was going to be hard to match up salary wise. We might be able to turn Burks, Henson, and a 2nd round pick at the deadline into taking on 10 million extra in future salary and a 1st round pick.

We are kind of in a use it or lose it category in terms of expirings and our salary cap. I think Gilbert and the front office are in agreement that we should hover just under the luxury tax and use expirings to pick up assets. Not using an expiring just loses us salary to trade and flexibility.

I think JR's contract might end up getting traded soon after December 15th if Houston is truly interested. They will dump Melo to us to waive. My guess is we get Brandon Knight back. I think he is a candidate to pump up and deal later.

 

[Rodzilla]

delly was a factor for the bucks because they were a 33 win team with no injuries before delly got there then they improved to make the playoffs despite losing jabari and middleton to major injuries, there was a 14-3 run in his first season there that was textbook delly sparking them to wins

there were also signs of textbook delly in both of the playoff series losses, the team looked incredible at times, lowry and rozier were completely neutralised by delly who got a delly chant in both series

i think that counts as a factor

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

delly was a factor for the bucks because they were a 33 win team with no injuries before delly got there then they improved to make the playoffs despite losing jabari and middleton to major injuries, there was a 14-3 run in his first season there that was textbook delly sparking them to wins

there were also signs of textbook delly in both of the playoff series losses, the team looked incredible at times, lowry and rozier were completely neutralised by delly who got a delly chant in both series

i think that counts as a factor

So the tales about you on realgm were true...

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

We got two 2nd rounders in that deal?

Regardless, Hill was not an expiring last year and we didn't need to clear cap space to sign another big FA in order to try to convince the greatest player in franchise history to stay.

Of course, you also need to find a 19m contract to get back in a trade, so it narrows down our options. I do think however that considering where the Cavfzs currently stand, the Bucks got off very lightly. Henson non factor because of his injury, Delly has been a non factor since he signed his contract and they get to dump their contracts for a very serviceable and the only loss is a highly protected first round pick that is years away from conveying?

For example, the pick that we traded for Korver had lighter protections on it, and in this particular trade we should get a much better return, no?

I just don't see why Koby should be praised here. I don't believe we maximized our return on the assets even in a vacuum, and in this scenario the return should have been greater than what we should have gotten in a vacuum.

If the protection were lighter to draft higher, then sure, but it's not.

There are probably more trades ahead and Koby needed to finalize the trade before some sort of a deadline?

The Cavs aren't the only team that values lottery picks. Finishing that deal before 6 pm was important because it gives us more flexibility to trade later. Koby basically waited as long as he could. Had he held out and said "remove/reduce those protections, or no deal", the Bucks may not have done the deal, and we'd be in a worse position today.

I think expecting to turn George Hill into only a lightly-protected first round pick really isn't a reasonable expectation.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

I think JR's contract might end up getting traded soon after December 15th if Houston is truly interested. They will dump Melo to us to waive. My guess is we get Brandon Knight back. I think he is a candidate to pump up and deal later.

I love how much you've run with this ever since I proposed it. If it happens I want a bottle of champagne mailed to me so I can usher in the new JR-less year with style.

 

[inliner311]

I love how much you've run with this ever since I proposed it. If it happens I want a bottle of champagne mailed to me so I can usher in the new JR-less year with style.

Haha....it's really the only deal that makes sense. I've tried to think of other deals around the league for JR and I can't see one.

Also how long ago did you propose this? I feel like I've been pushing for it for at least a month or more.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Also how long ago did you propose this? I feel like I've been pushing for it for at least a month or more.

http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?posts/3166918/

 

[inliner311]

http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?posts/3166918/

Haha. Oh you underestimated how long Ive tried to get people to talk to me about it. I started a thread in the trades, free agents, & draft section to try to sort it thru.

http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?threads/trades-for-2018-2019-cavs.49303/

You bring it up probably made it more realistic in my mind though.

 

[Cassity14]

We got two 2nd rounders in that deal?

Regardless, Hill was not an expiring last year and we didn't need to clear cap space to sign another big FA in order to try to convince the greatest player in franchise history to stay.

Of course, you also need to find a 19m contract to get back in a trade, so it narrows down our options. I do think however that considering where the Cavfzs currently stand, the Bucks got off very lightly. Henson non factor because of his injury, Delly has been a non factor since he signed his contract and they get to dump their contracts for a very serviceable and the only loss is a highly protected first round pick that is years away from conveying?

For example, the pick that we traded for Korver had lighter protections on it, and in this particular trade we should get a much better return, no?

I just don't see why Koby should be praised here. I don't believe we maximized our return on the assets even in a vacuum, and in this scenario the return should have been greater than what we should have gotten in a vacuum.

If the protection were lighter to draft higher, then sure, but it's not.

There are probably more trades ahead and Koby needed to finalize the trade before some sort of a deadline?

I could be wrong, but I thought I saw 2 second rounders.

I think you’re over-valuing Hill and undervaluing the pick because it’s lottery protected. With Giannis in this eastern conference, I don’t see how it’s not a 2021 first round pick.

First round picks are increasingly difficult to come by as teams have really begun to realize their value, so getting one for a player who isn’t close to good enough to warrant one is great.

I don’t believe this trade should net the Cavs more than Korver netted the hawks. He was coming off the best season of his career (where he was an all-star) and was the best outside shooter to be available since Ray Allen ditched Boston via free agency. Sure, there’s the contract relief side of things, but Korver was an extremely valuable commodity in 2017.

The Cavs rented their cap space that wouldn’t have gotten them much this summer in terms of free agency for only one extra season, and they received 2 picks (maybe 3 but I’m not totally sure) for doing so.

It’s not flashy, but its what rebuilding teams need to do.

 

[inliner311]

I could be wrong, but I thought I saw 2 second rounders.

I think you’re over-valuing Hill and undervaluing the pick because it’s lottery protected. With Giannis in this eastern conference, I don’t see how it’s not a 2021 first round pick.

First round picks are increasingly difficult to come by as teams have really begun to realize their value, so getting one for a player who isn’t close to good enough to warrant one is great.

I don’t believe this trade should net the Cavs more than Korver netted the hawks. He was coming off the best season of his career (where he was an all-star) and was the best outside shooter to be available since Ray Allen ditched Boston via free agency. Sure, there’s the contract relief side of things, but Korver was an extremely valuable commodity in 2017.

The Cavs rented their cap space that wouldn’t have gotten them much this summer in terms of free agency for only one extra season, and they received 2 picks (maybe 3 but I’m not totally sure) for doing so.

It’s not flashy, but its what rebuilding teams need to do.

One of the second round picks is essentially a pick swap. We traded the wizards back their 2021 second rounder for their 2022 second round pick. I think it was important for the Bucks to get center depth back which they got with Jason Smith. Not sure what the wizards trading years for their second rounder does really. It at least shows those second round picks helps get trades done.

We have got a protected 1st round pick and three 2nd round picks from the Korver and Hill deals. A good start to rebuilding our chest of assets and should make Kobys job easier at the trade deadline.