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2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

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Regrade the finalized trade

  • A+

    Votes: 20 8.0%
  • A

    Votes: 70 27.9%
  • B

    Votes: 74 29.5%
  • C

    Votes: 39 15.5%
  • D

    Votes: 18 7.2%
  • F

    Votes: 30 12.0%

  • Total voters
    251
Has anyone putting Curry in the "elite" camp even looked at his statline this year?

There is very little appreciable difference on the box score from Curry and Irving, and you can't argue that Curry is a good defender or even an average defender this year...

So how is Curry elite and Irving is not and they are somehow so far apart when their stats are almost identical?

The only variance here is with respect to +/- aggregates which are going to strongly value (overvalue) time where Irving is on the floor and LeBron is off the floor -- and this is not an issue Steph Curry has to worry about given he plays within a very defined system and is also playing with far more players who can create their own shot.

He's also got 3-4 other players on the team who can generate 5+ APG a game if given the opportunity including Livingston, Durant, and Green.

It's an asinine conclusion, based on incomplete information and a lazy assessment based on nothing more that cursory glance at a few +/- based "advanced stats." This is what I mean by the misuse and bastardization of statistics and analytics.
 
False

Livingston was not at scorers table ready to come in and replace, the violation and review served as a time out and strategic opportunity to take Steph out
What's "false"? The above is from NBA officials. Not trying to be a jerk, just not clear what you're disagreeing with...
Here's the full LINK
 
Kyrie's numbers through his first six seasons have comparable categories to those four through their respective first six seasons, including the post-season. He was also younger.

However, Kyrie's biggest impact is the graph posted earlier. None of them touch him.

2zrdhsz.jpg

And what does that have to do with now?

The argument isn't what those players have done in the past compared to Kyrie up to this point.

The ESPN writer (i don't even know the name, that's how little I care), is trolling, and it's working. Because we are actually discussing this and some of you actually got upset over what he said.

There still seems to be this "everyone is out to get Kyrie" mentality going on in this thread. And given, sure there are skeptics of his, and maybe one's that look beyond just a cheap headline. But there are plenty of advocates of his game too.

I don't think Kyrie is overrated, or underrated. I think he's rated just fine. He's elite, but he's not yet within the ranks of Paul, Harden, Curry, and Westbrook, yet...

If you go through the context of what he said, and put it together, it's pretty evident what he's doing. He's not trying to have a serious debate, he's just trying to get subscribers.

There's nothing to actually debate what he said. Those four are better. He's not wrong.

But that doesn't mean Kyrie isn't elite because he's not as good. That makes no sense.

So, for example is Durant "not elite" because he's not as good as LeBron?

We're talking about two-MVP candidates, a two-time MVP candidate, and an all world point guard. These are not just guys elite at their positions, but elite in the entire league!

The point guard position has never been more talented. That's what it tells me more than anything than using those standards to suggest Kyrie isn't elite because he's not yet played at the level of those 4.

Of all the positions, there's not a position more deep with talent than the point guard position. No other position comes close.

All those players are in their prime, and Kyrie isn't. Those players weren't anywhere this good say 4 years ago either compared to now, with the exception of Paul.

There's really nothing to be outrageous about. The writer was going for a click bait headline. Nothing more.

It was cheap and tacky. And typical ESPN trolling.
 
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Not sure if this would be asked in this thread kind of new to this so if someone would direct me to Where I would look if this isn't it I would appreciate it!!

I'm a die hard kyrie Irving fan and s big time sneaker collector. I collect Kyries signature line as well as his samples and player exclusive hyperdunks and Hyperrevs he had along the way before his own Nike shoe. I was wondering if anyone had any hyperdunks, Hyperrevs, or any of his signature line pes for sale ??
 
This guy is only 24 years old. He's already hit the biggest shot in NBA history, at least Cleveland history.

That said, remember this Portland game. Remember the game last night in Utah. The next time someone mentions him as an MVP candidate, punch yourself in the face. Then, remember there are times that he plays really bad basketball from an IQ standpoint.

I know it's like sacrilege on here, but he needs to be accountable. He doesn't need to be pass-first. That's not his nature. But damn, he certainly could stand to pass once in a while. After all, we go out and load up on spot up shooters to surround him and LeBron. Draw the defense and use them. If he stops all ball movement and forces bad shots, that isn't helping this team. These shooters weren't put on this team to create for themselves.

And Lord almighty, at what point do players care about both ends of the floor, at least a little bit. Fake it.

We are lucky to have him, but damn. Coming off a month where it all seemed to be clicking and looking like the next step of evolution....great passing, improved defense, the Golden State game... then... poof, turd sandwich.

Lue, being a former point guard, must fix this. It's only because I want what's best for him.

I'm not being fickle, and I haven't forgotten any of the transcendent positive moments. All I'm saying is it's a real thing that can be seen time to time, and he needs to learn. Now or never. We shouldn't be afraid to talk about it.

People try to rank point guards. We fight for places for Kyrie. He needs to find a way to always help the team, no matter what. Even if he's missing shots. Kevin has taken that step this year, being a good influence even if off offensively. Kyrie needs to step in line.

Rankings? Sometimes he looks like number 1. Sometimes he looks like number 15. Sometimes in between. The disparity should not be this dramatic. Find a way to help your team. Even on bad nights. You're a star, dammit.

I'm a fan, I root for Kyrie, and I certainly like the kid. I love it when he goes off. I just think it's time to take the next step. We should be allowed to be critical. End rant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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What happened to the guy we had for a week that was making plays for other guys and kicking out to shooters?

Bumping this.

He has no impact on the game when he isn't scoring. The guy we had for a week would have. He's out here not passing to shooters and throwing up junk around the basket again.
 
Bumping this.

He has no impact on the game when he isn't scoring. The guy we had for a week would have. He's out here not passing to shooters and throwing up junk around the basket again.

Everyone had a bad game...

The whole fucking team made 25 field goals...

This was very likely due to their travel situation, at least, that'd be my guess.

But if we're going to think that Irving should've generated assists with no one hitting shots, then that's weird... Moreover, we're not really complaining about Irving's ability to score are we?

It's a blip...
 
Everyone had a bad game...

The whole fucking team made 25 field goals...

This was very likely due to their travel situation, at least, that'd be my guess.

But if we're going to think that Irving should've generated assists with no one hitting shots, then that's weird... Moreover, we're not really complaining about Irving's ability to score are we?

It's a blip...

Gonna say what I said in the game thread.

Am I the only one questioning why we are doing "defensive walkthroughs" instead of actual practices?
 
We always make excuses and dismiss criticism from outside sources as trolling. Is there really an axe to grind with these writers, or maybe there is some truth to what they're saying?

A superstar or a future MVP candidate doesn't have this many stinkers and doesn't fail to have such a low impact when he can't score.
 
@gourimoko better get your fingers stretched for tonight/tomorrow...it's already getting bad in the gamethread.

:chuckle:

The best thing is to wait for the next game where Irving comes out and embarrasses anyone who ventured out their hate... Happens every single time.... every time.

And yes, I'll be waiting to pounce like a motherfucker...
 
Irving doesn't seem to be running full speed. Seems like his legs are pumping fast but he's moving in slow motion. It's showing on defense and on the break. Not meaning to make excuses, but he just doesn't seem right, now, for whatever reason.
 
Not really concerned about our big 3 struggling, they'll get back to their usual levels soon. I'm VERY concerned about Jefferson and Shumpert unable to hit from 3. Korver hasn't been able to hit as well these first two games, but it's Kyle Korver and he's still trying to get used to the team. Jefferson has been flat out unplayable for the last month or so, and if Shumpert can't shoot either then any bench lineup we throw out there is doomed to bleed points.
 

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