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Kyrie Trades.

Discussion in 'Trades, Free Agency, & the Draft' started by RichieRichPaul, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. The Wizard of Moz

    The Wizard of Moz Lindorable

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    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nba-haters-ball/?ex_cid=538twitter

    what I was referring to.

    "When Wiggins contests a shot, opponents have a 56.1 effective field goal percentage; when they are unguarded, they have a 56.4 eFG percentage. Fundamentally, getting a shot up against Andrew Wiggins is the same as getting an open shot."
     
  2. Cassity14

    Cassity14 NBA Starter

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    I'll bite.

    Kemba Walker is not the player Kyrie Irving is, and he never will be. That is a clear downgrade. Maybe he's a marginally better defender, but he is not the shooter, ball handler, or pure scorer that Irving is, particularly in iso-heavy offensive situations.

    MKG offers 0 ability to space the floor, and cannot be viewed as an upgrade over Shump because he is a forward rather than a guard. MKG is a low minute backup on this team as he will be behind LeBron, Love, and Tristan when it comes to minutes.

    Furthermore, neither of these players is going to improve much if at all at this point in their careers - they are who they are.

    One draft pick is simply not enough value to make up for the little impact the Cavs would be receiving in the short term for doing this trade.

    On the other hand, you have a team like Phoenix that could (and I'd argue will) offer a combination of a starting point guard in Bledsoe who is comparable to Kemba Walker (and a step up defensively), a top prospect in Jackson, and at least one draft pick.

    I just don't see how those offers are even close to one another. MKG and Walker don't impact the team much at all now, and aren't valuable long term assets.
     
  3. The Wizard of Moz

    The Wizard of Moz Lindorable

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    I'm honestly Porzingis or bust

    After thinking about it, Kyrie really fucked us.

    Swap Kyrie for Paul George and we're a better team. Of that I have no doubt. Same with Paul or Butler (though I don't think we were getting butler regardless)

    Now? I genuinely see no trades out there that make us better THIS YEAR

    So thanks ky, already a lost year. And if it's gonna be a lost year anyway I'd rather have the guy that who has one of the highest ceilings in the NBA to basically regroup and make another serious run at things in 2018-19

    It fucking blows but I genuinely think We have next to no shot to win it all next year with Kyrie waiting until all clear upgrades were traded to speak up
     
  4. CleveRocks

    CleveRocks There go the Cavs!

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    So these conclusions are from your observations of the players in action? Then I will respect your opinion and you can respect mine?

    I prefer the numbers when making this kind of evaluation. Walker has done quite nicely at Charlotte and is clearly the best player on that team. MKG has been a relative disappointment compared to his draft status, but I am pretty surprised you are arguing Shump is a better player.

    But so it is.
     
  5. Cassity14

    Cassity14 NBA Starter

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    I didn't say Shump is a better player than MKG once. I said you can't view MKG as an "upgrade over Shump" because they play different positions. The only way MKG is an "upgrade over Shump" is if LeBron or MKG is playing the guard position as much as Shump was. Does that make sense?

    A cart of basketballs is an upgrade over Shumpert at this point.

    As for using offensive/defensive per to claim Kemba Walker is in the same league as Kyrie Irving as a player, I'd argue that points more toward the quality of those stats than anything, but you do you.
     
  6. CleveRocks

    CleveRocks There go the Cavs!

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    I dont view kemba as equivalent to Kyrie one on one, but i fo think they have similar impact on this team..I think Irving can be superior to Westbrook with the ball in his hands, but it makes no sense to do that in a lebron team..

    Which is why I think Charlotte might make that trade. Kyrie is special enough to take a gang of pretty good big men to the post season, and other stars will want to play with him..

    Mkg is an upgrade to shump because he is exactly more of a 3 than shump. Yes i would expect lebron to play 2 more and 4 more if they are together, but just as important is an effective 3 when lebron is out.. we stalled offensively without lebron last year, but a walker rose mkg love tt combo is good enough to win some games without lebron at all..
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. Tornicade

    Tornicade TornScout 7400.2.5.42.13 Version 23C

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    Lets say Melo really doesn't want to goto Cleveland. ANyways I'm sure so picks would be included in this imagined deal but the principles
    Houston get Carmelo
    NY gets Kyrie Irving ,Ryan Anderson
    CLE Gets Porzingas and Eric Gordon+ pick
     
  8. UltraRadical-CavFanatical

    UltraRadical-CavFanatical Rookie

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    The ideal, and very realistic scenario for the Cavs roster this season:

    C Thompson, Bogut?, Tavares
    PF Love, Bosh?
    SF James, Green, Korver
    SG Josh Jackson?, Tony Allen?, JR Smith
    PG Bledsoe?, Rose, Calderon

    Okay, so let's say the Suns eventually come to the realization that they are not going to get Irving without giving up either Booker OR Jackson in return. They know that Booker is more valuable to them now than the unproven Jackson. They finally agree that 2 years to try and win with Booker and Irving as their backcourt duo is a much better chance than without Irving. Insert rookie Josh Jackson and veteran Eric Bledsoe into a Cavs uniform. The Cavs then make another small move to rid themselves of Shumpert, Jefferson, Frye or Felder's contracts and make room for free agent defensive beast Tony Allen, a fully recovered and motivated Andrew Bogut, and assuming Chris Bosh is blood clot-free and cleared to return via the Cleveland Clinic,... BAM, we have a deep, well-balanced roster that actually has a shot at taking down that super-team out west. These are all moves that could very realistically happen, and should happen. According to Sam A mi co, the Suns are the most realistic trade partner due to their amount of trade assets in addition to their want for Kyrie Irving. It also doesn't hurt that james Jones is now a high up in their front office. I think Phoenix eventually wakes up and realizes that they have a shot at winning now with Booker and Irving.
     
  9. JMoneyYourHoney

    JMoneyYourHoney cLUEless

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    Are they waking up a from a drug-induced slumber? Just how do you figure that the Suns believe they actually have a legit shot at "winning" with a team led by Kyrie and Booker???

    There's a good chance that team doesn't even make the playoffs.
     
  10. Sir'Dom Pointer

    Sir'Dom Pointer Sixth Man

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    Kyrie and Booker to be quite honest is just a terrible combination defensive wise.. possibly worst in the league.
    Offensively they also don't quite fit.. Booker needs a PG that is willing to pass.
     
  11. Kriegerrr

    Kriegerrr Rookie

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    As someone who would gladly take Phoenix's assets, Phoenix would incredibly stupid to trade for Kyrie. Kyrie and Booker would accomplish absolutely NOTHING the next two years, like they are almost guaranteed to miss the playoffs. All they'd do is give up long-term assets for two years of flashy but ultimately irrelevant mediocre basketball until he leaves because he dislikes Booker.
     
  12. Mavaliersfan

    Mavaliersfan Rookie

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    *My first post so be easy on me*
    Interesting stat I came across is Defensive Win Shares (DFS). Cavs have 1 player on their roster within the top 75, LBJ (73). GSW have 5 within the overall top 20. Simply put, the Cavs need to rebuild their identify on the defensive-end in any Kyrie/Love trade. Here's my best shot.

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8b6n83k

    Cavs get: Dragic (53), Winslow (4), Tyler Johnson (31), Rodney Hood (37), D. Favors (67), D. Exum (116) *waive Frye

    Miami gets: Irving, Shumpert, Jefferson

    Utah gets: Love, Felder

    Cavs add depth, size, and defense at their wing positions to match-up with GS. We get our coveted blue-chip pieces in Hood, Winslow, & Exum. The primary reason our offense flat-lined when Bron would rest is because we had no one who could create their own offense outside of Irving. In this scenario, we would have multiple ball handlers / scorers to keep teams honest. Defensively we become much more athletic & versatile. Lastly, Gilbert saves 10M in salary & 40M in luxury tax.

    Miami adds a superstar in Irving as a team who was on his wish list & they get to keep Whiteside.

    Utah gets to reunite Love & Rubio, & they get the perfect PF to compliment Gobert.

    Who says no?

    Dragic, Rose, Exum, Calderon
    Hood, TJ, JR, Korver
    Bron, Winslow, Osman
    Favors, Green
    TT, Tavares (waive for Bogut)
     

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