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LeBron James

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With all due respect, Lee, I’m a lifelong (36 years old) Lakers fan who likes to lurk this forum and your assessment about Kobe being 5th of 6th best player on the Lakers and now behind LeBron is absolutely absurd.

Whether you like it or not, Kobe is a legend here in Los Angeles. Despite his past mishaps, and he’s had many, I admit, he was a young man in the early and mid 2000’s and made some dumbass mistakes. I don’t think anyone denies that.

But in terms of his pure basketball genius, you had to witness some of his greatest performances at Staples Center to understand why we here in LA will always think of Kobe as either the greatest, or second greatest Laker to ever don the purple and gold.

He was either a close second option, or first option to 5 titles, 3 consecutive on one occasion, and two on another, for this franchise.

If LeBron wants to be a part of the Laker great pantheon, he needs to win at least one championship first. Even the great Wilt Chamberlain, the man who scored 100 points in one game, was only able to lead the franchise to 1 championship.

Granted, the majority of us are absolutely ecstatic that we now have LeBron. I mean, come on, this is LeBron James we’re talking about. The best player in the league without question. The man who has redefined the game of basketball. Cleveland and Miami legend. Imagine he wins a title for the Lakers....that would be 3 franchises that he would have done that for. Unmatched.

Ultimately, how could you not be excited about having the two most dynamic, and arguably popular players in the NBA in the last 20 years playing for your team?

We are blessed as a franchise, and our fan base isn’t filled with just the band wagoners that yes, we do unfortunately have. We have some of the most hardcore diehard fans in the world. And being a part of that die hard fan base includes being a fan of Kobe for 20 years, which includes the ability to criticize him when he deserves criticism.

But please, just try to be impartial and look at it from a viewpoint that isn’t so blind sided. I’m not arguing that Kobe was or is better then any other player he played against. I’m simply stating that he provided 20 years worth of memorable moments for us, and that making the claim you made is simply not accurate based on that fact alone.

You are proving my blind spot theory. As far as players who played in a Laker uniform, he isn't top 5.

You now have Lebron, Magic, Kareem, Wilt. Not much debate those are better players than Kobe, maybe not Lakers, although Magic and Kareem are better Lakers too, but then you have Shaq who most rank ahead of Kobe and won the first 3 MVP's for the titles, so there is that, then West, Karl and Elgin who I have behind Kobe.

I could see a case for Kobe to be 9th or 10th in uniform, I have him 6th, but only Shaq is debatable not better than Kobe for his career....not Laker career, but career.

That is my point, you have a Kobe blind spot, all Laker fans do for some reason.

Oh and I am a 46 year old sports fan and not a Laker hater at all, loved Magic and many other Laker players. I just love basketball. I remember Magic's rookie year. I remember Magic playing center as a rookie in the finals and the Lakers winning the game. I remember when Kareem set the all time scoring record...as a Laker.

As for Lebron, he is the GOAT, but worst case, he is 2nd to MJ, and Wilt, well that is before my time, trusting the experts on that one.
 
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Bullshit. Once again, I point to Harden, who has made 169 more free throws then field goals in his career. Is the game fixed in his favor???

Dwayne Wade had the same ability to draw fouls.

I know you are a Laker fan and new here, but both Harden and Wade have been called out numerous times on here for how the refs favor them. You are showing a lack of respect to an extremely knowledgeable fan board.

Just because Harden gets twice the calls than he should, doesn't prove that the 2002 game 6 wasn't horribly officiated. The Kings were just Lucky harden didn't play for the Lakers at that time, lol

Also calling the Kings the Queens shows a lack of maturity. We are a Cavs message board and truly don't give a fuck about the Kings, but throwing in useless insults makes hit hard to take your debate seriously.
 
LeBron In particular is quickly learning that if you’re a superstar wearing purple and gold, your “special treatment” card gets revoked. I must have seen James get hacked, mauled, and clobbered on numerous occasions thus far with the Lakers with no calls.

He’s in actuality, easily the most fouled player in the league currently, but these zebras don’t seem to care now that he’s in LA.
I mean, he definitely gets the Shaq treatment from the refs, but it's been going on for years.
 
Fair enough Lee, I don't mean any disrespect and apologize if I came off a bit brash.

Appreciate the thoughtful responses by everyone here. I do respect this board and its members a ton. Been a lurker since 2009. I don't lurk any other opposing boards. I've always been an LBJ fan and never imagined he would play for my team.

Just a Lakers fan whose excited to have a relevant team again for the first time in nearly 7 years.
 
Fair enough Lee, I don't mean any disrespect and apologize if I came off a bit brash.

Appreciate the thoughtful responses by everyone here. I do respect this board and its members a ton. Been a lurker since 2009. I don't lurk any other opposing boards. I've always been an LBJ fan and never imagined he would play for my team.

Just a Lakers fan whose excited to have a relevant team again for the first time in nearly 7 years.

I appreciate the response and will take you seriously again.

What you should be saying is you cant believe how good Lebron is considering he is fucking 34 years old. He shouldn't be this good at this age.

Pippen said it best, Jordan is the greatest scorer of all time, Lebron is the greatest player of all time.

On the list I had better than Kobe that played in a Lakers uniform, Kobe might be the greatest scorer of all of them including the all time scoring leader Kareem who played for a million years. Only reason I would argue Kareem is a better scorer is because he had the most un-defendable shot of all time in the sky hook, even harder to defend than the Jordan baseline fade away jumper.

But Magic wasnt even the 2nd best scorer on the showtime lakers, that was kareem and Worthy was number 1, just looking at all around play, and its hard to put Kobe in front of Kareem, Lebron, Magic and Wilt. Its not an insult to Kobe, just shows how ridiculous the tradition of the team originally from Minny that now plays in LA,

PS, calling a team the Lakers that plays in LA is stupid, but not going to change it now, lol. (Atleast some team in Utah didn't name themselves after a music style popular in New Orleans or anything.)
 
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Fair enough Lee, I don't mean any disrespect and apologize if I came off a bit brash.

Appreciate the thoughtful responses by everyone here.

Just a Lakers fan whose excited to have a relevant team again for the first time in nearly 7 years.
I appreciate the response and will take you seriously again.

What you should be saying is you cant believe how good Lebron is considering he is fucking 34 years old. He shouldn't be this good at this age.

Pippen said it best, Jordan is the greatest scorer of all time, Lebron is the greatest player of all time.

On the list I had better than Kobe that played in a Lakers uniform, Kobe might be the greatest scorer of all of them including the all time scoring leader Kareem who played for a million years. Only reason I would argue Kareem is a better scorer is because he had the most un-defendable shot of all time in the sky hook, even harder to defend than the Jordan baseline fade away jumper.

But Magic wasnt even the 2nd best scorer on the showtime lakers, that was kareem and Worthy was number 1, just looking at all around play, and its hard to put Kobe in front of Kareem, Lebron, Magic and Wilt. Its not an insult to Kobe, just shows how ridiculous the tradition of the team originally from Minny that now plays in LA,

PS, calling a team the Lakers that plays in LA is stupid, but not going to change it now, lol. (Atleast some team in Utah didn't name themselves after a music style popular in New Orleans or anything.)

Well, after his performance in both the regular and especially the post season last year, myself along with many other Laker faithful were in absolute shock when we learned he was coming here.

The kind of shock you get after you realize you just won the lottery. Except none of us have won the lottery and this was as close as it was going to get.

I’m certain you’ve evaluated the current talent on LeBron’s Laker team. They’re actually solid players. Ball is an all around guard that can get you 14/7/7 on any given night if asked to. Ingram can score 20 and play point for the second unit. Kuzma has the ability to drain the 3 and score when needed. Hart is great off the bench. The vets like McGee, Rondo, and Chandler were all great additions to balance the roster out. Lance Stephenson is a solid energy guy, ala Artest, except without the Metta-talent, so to speak. Rookies like Mo Wagner show solid potential, and even a guy like Svi can be effective if he become a poor-mans version of Peja.

The coaching is so-so. I like Luke, but his decision making can be suspect, as can his substitutions. His situation reminds me of Spo in Miami...some in that Heat roster preferred Riles, but ultimately, he chose to stick it out with Spoelstra, and that was that. Though Luke isn’t necessarily Magic’s guy, he is Jeannie Busses, and as I stated in an earlier post, it gets a bit frustrating when all she does is “keep in the family”. Luke is more of an assistant-specialist. But for now, I suppose he’s performing to the peak of his ability...if he’s here to stay, of course I hope I’m wrong about that.

All of that said, next summer, the Lakers have max space to sign a big FA. There has been talk of trading for AD....but I’m pretty certain upper management would rather not give up on these guys considering we have the cap space next summer to sign anyone we want.

Now you pair up LeBron with a max superstar....alongside improving young studs....and yikes.

Then the Lakers become legitimate contenders to the throne. It all starts with LBJ, and if it’s going to happen, he’s going to lead us there. And the fact that the Lakers have the record they have and are on pace to win 52 games in the grueling and parity driven Western Conference of 2018 makes it an even more impressive feat.
 
All of that said, next summer, the Lakers have max space to sign a big FA. There has been talk of trading for AD....but I’m pretty certain upper management would rather not give up on these guys considering we have the cap space next summer to sign anyone we want.
LOL at Magic holding on to his guys as opposed to trading for AD; the fact is that if the Pelicans made AD available, the Lakers have absolutely nothing that they'd want. Boston would win an AD bidding war pretty easily, if Ainge were so inclined (and why wouldn't he?)

Acting like Magic wouldn't trade for AD given the choice is hilarious and a clear case of overvaluing one's players.

As for signing a max free agent, I'd tread warily there. Remarks by Leonard and Durant don't seem to indicate that they're eager to play with LeBron. You add that to your lousy track record the past + half decade when it comes to signing free agents (outside of LeBron), it's probably best to maintain a policy of cautious optimism.
 
The single best analysis / ranking of the best players in NBA history I have ever seen came from a site called Backpicks this summer, it integrated all kinds of new statistical modeling with careful review of video. On that listing, Kobe is ranked 14th best player ever and the sixth best player ever to play for the Lakers, after Kareem (#1 career all-time), Lebron (#3 career all-time so far), Shaq (#5 all-time), Wilt (#9 all-time), and Magic (#10 all time). The Lakers have fully half of the top ten players ever, it's unfair how much luck that franchise has had!

Really encourage people to check out that ranking as I have never seen anything close to the depth, detail, and logic in ranking all-time players. It puts a strong emphasis on defense which most of these lists don't do, and also has the most well-rounded offense and total impact metrics I have seen. Here is the link:

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/

Here is Kobe's entry:

http://www.backpicks.com/2018/03/01/backpicks-goat-14-kobe-bryant/

He claims that Kobe's defense was somewhat overrated after 2001, and also tags him for being an inefficient offensive player compared to the very best:

"[Kobe] was probably the greatest contested-shot maker in NBA history, serving up facials like a shot esthetician. His diverse offensive payload produced six of the top-75 scoring rates ever, and while his ability to make tough shots was jaw-dropping, his tendency to take these shots capped his efficiency. In a 2007 ABC telecast, Tim Legler marveled, “Kobe has the highest degree of difficulty shots in the NBA.” Which was not a good thing."​
 
All of that said, next summer, the Lakers have max space to sign a big FA. There has been talk of trading for AD....but I’m pretty certain upper management would rather not give up on these guys considering we have the cap space next summer to sign anyone we want.

Now you pair up LeBron with a max superstar....alongside improving young studs....and yikes.

Then the Lakers become legitimate contenders to the throne. It all starts with LBJ, and if it’s going to happen, he’s going to lead us there. And the fact that the Lakers have the record they have and are on pace to win 52 games in the grueling and parity driven Western Conference of 2018 makes it an even more impressive feat.

Come on, the Lakers should be willing to trade their entire team except for Lebron for AD. But very doubtful they could compete for him.

Bottom line is that outside of Lebron Lakers had a team that won 35 games, granted they were young but even with improvement that squad outside of Lebron would likely have peaked as a marginal playoff team at best in the Western conference. Lakers fans should be setting up little personal votive shrines to Lebron and lighting candles every night to thank him for saving your bacon by coming to LA.

As for improving the team, it is not going to be so easy to get another top five or top ten player to LA to pair with LBJ. Another max player is possible because there are a lot of overpaid players in the NBA, but who in the top five or ten is going to come? I'm not saying it's impossible but it's looking a lot less likely than last year. Looking like Magic may have made a mistake not offering better players for Kawhi when he was available, although hard to see how the Lakers could have beaten Toronto's offer.

Lakers best bet is making a really smart move to target an up and coming young star in free agency or with a trade, but Magic has not really impressed with his moves so far, outside of having Lebron fall into his lap like manna from heaven.
 
Trade for AD and assume he's going to sign an extension, despite being a FA in 2020 and having more leverage...or keep the core together, that seem to be playing fairly well right now all considering, and look for other options this coming summer with your max space.....

Yes, on one hand, I would love AD next to James, but at the expense of gutting the roster? No thanks. The Pelicans would absolutely listen if the Lakers offered Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, or at least two of the three and maybe Hart. But that's giving up too much for a team that has max space this coming summer.

Smart money is waiting. Yes, LeBron isn't getting any younger, but he's also effortlessly averaging 27/7/7 while playing the lowest minutes of his career on this Lakers squad. The Charlotte game was a great example (among other games) of how well this team could gel when everything clicks.

I would rather keep those young guys and be patient enough to see what this summer has to offer. I don't buy into the media talk, or what KD said about players not wanting to play with LBJ. With all due respect, and I don't mean any disrespect by this, but it's one thing for a FA to sign with Cleveland and play with James, and another to bring their brand to Los Angeles, which instantly expands the moment they put on a Lakers jersey, and play alongside the GOAT to bring championship banner number 17. The recognition is there in LA, we've had studs decade after decade, we don't just discredit the players who got us to the promise land. Hell, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, and Rick Fox are still legends here in LA...come on now.

Kawhi, KD, Jimmy Butler, Klay (while making GS weaker), Kemba, (I would have included Kyrie, but ya...), give us anyone of those studs without gutting the team and the Lakers are instantly in my humble opinion, legitimate contenders.
 
Come on, the Lakers should be willing to trade their entire team except for Lebron for AD. But very doubtful they could compete for him.

Bottom line is that outside of Lebron Lakers had a team that won 35 games, granted they were young but even with improvement that squad outside of Lebron would likely have peaked as a marginal playoff team at best in the Western conference. Lakers fans should be setting up little personal votive shrines to Lebron and lighting candles every night to thank him for saving your bacon by coming to LA.

As for improving the team, it is not going to be so easy to get another top five or top ten player to LA to pair with LBJ. Another max player is possible because there are a lot of overpaid players in the NBA, but who in the top five or ten is going to come? I'm not saying it's impossible but it's looking a lot less likely than last year. Looking like Magic may have made a mistake not offering better players for Kawhi when he was available, although hard to see how the Lakers could have beaten Toronto's offer.

Lakers best bet is making a really smart move to target an up and coming young star in free agency or with a trade, but Magic has not really impressed with his moves so far, outside of having Lebron fall into his lap like manna from heaven.
The poster in question seems like a decent guy so I don't want to bash the fellow, but he's also guilty of exhibiting the typical hubris and delusion that we associate with his fanbase.

"Trade for AD or sign anyone we want" ignores a lot of very real obstacles and is predicated on some massive assumptions.

I have to wonder if Magic really is as naive and optimistic as a lot of fans out there. He played himself by not trading for Paul George, and now Kawhi playing for the Lakers doesn't seem nearly as much of a foregone conclusion as it once did. If he re-signs with Toronto or goes to the Clippers and Durant stays with the Warriors or goes elsewhere, who else is out there that can really help LeBron win a title?

There were reports about the Lakers targeting Ariza, who while older would be a terrific complement to LeBron this year. But Magic balked and Washington snagged him. It sounded like Beal, another ideal LeBron accompaniment, was on the block but now it appears that Washington is trying to make a playoff push.

Guess we'll see.
 
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Trade for AD and assume he's going to sign an extension, despite being a FA in 2020 and having more leverage...or keep the core together, that seem to be playing fairly well right now all considering, and look for other options this coming summer with your max space.....

Yes, on one hand, I would love AD next to James, but at the expense of gutting the roster? No thanks. The Pelicans would absolutely listen if the Lakers offered Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, or at least two of the three and maybe Hart. But that's giving up too much for a team that has max space this coming summer.

Smart money is waiting. Yes, LeBron isn't getting any younger, but he's also effortlessly averaging 27/7/7 while playing the lowest minutes of his career on this Lakers squad. The Charlotte game was a great example (among other games) of how well this team could gel when everything clicks.

I would rather keep those young guys and be patient enough to see what this summer has to offer. I don't buy into the media talk, or what KD said about players not wanting to play with LBJ. With all due respect, and I don't mean any disrespect by this, but it's one thing for a FA to sign with Cleveland and play with James, and another to bring their brand to Los Angeles, which instantly expands the moment they put on a Lakers jersey, and play alongside the GOAT to bring championship banner number 17. The recognition is there in LA, we've had studs decade after decade, we don't just discredit the players who got us to the promise land. Hell, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, and Rick Fox are still legends here in LA...come on now.

Kawhi, KD, Jimmy Butler, Klay (while making GS weaker), Kemba, (I would have included Kyrie, but ya...), give us anyone of those studs without gutting the team and the Lakers are instantly in my humble opinion, legitimate contenders.
Your fourth paragraph.....no disrespect? Thats pretty direspectful to our fanbase.You basically just said little old Cleveland just cant compete with the great city of Los Angeles. Another words, Los Angeles is where its really at....in a nice way. And that is a complete bullshit.
 
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The poster in question seems like a decent guy so I don't want to bash the fellow, but he's also guilty of exhibiting the typical hubris and delusion that we associate with his fanbase.

"Trade for AD or sign anyone we want" ignores a lot of very real obstacles and is predicated on some massive assumptions.

I have to wonder if Magic really is as naive and optimistic as a lot of fans out there. He played himself by not trading for Paul George, and now Kawhi playing for the Lakers doesn't seem nearly as much of a foregone conclusion as it once did. If he re-signs with Toronto or goes to the Clippers and Durant stays with the Warriors or goes elsewhere, who else is out there that can really help LeBron win a title?

There were reports about the Lakers targeting Ariza, who while older would be a terrific complement to LeBron this year. But Magic balked and Washington snagged him. It sounded like Beal, another ideal LeBron accompaniment, was on the block but now it appeasr that Washington is trying to make a playoff push.

Guess we'll see.

Maybe you're right, and Magic seems to conduct his business differently then Jerry West or even Mitch Kupchak did...those two guys would have made the trade. However with that said, how much of his decision making is also tied into what LeBron himself wants?

Trading our entire roster for a guy who can leave in a year, while having max space to sign a guy like Klay Thompson next summer (I'll gladly take Klay, who would have a field day with open shots next to James, and makes the Warriors weaker in the process), may not make sense to the Lakers FO, or even LBJ for that matter.

Expiring Ariza for an expiring KCP is what they were asking for, plus some other fillers. KCP is actually starting to play fairly well for the second unit, hitting some much needed 3's and providing a spark off the bench with Rondo, and now even Ingram out. Signing another older SF would be a lateral move at best.

Look, I love Trevor Ariza, he was part of our 09 title team, but that was almost 10 years ago. Rather then make haste decisions, why not give this team at least a half season to try and gel? I don't understand the rush here...it's as if people forgot how dominant the Warriors are going to be come playoff time. They may be "coasting" right now, and showing some "chinks in their armor", but come post season, nobody is going to beat that team in a 7 game series if healthy.

Agree that Beal would have been a great addition, not sure what they were asking for, but if it's anything like what everyone else seems to want from this team (Ingram, Kuzma, and Ball), than no thank you. You may not see the talent those guys possess, but it's there, and they're still 21/22 years old. No way I would give up on them this quickly. This isn't D'Angelo Russell we're talking about here, these guys are actually good players who are only going to improve and seem genuinely excited to play alongside James. Whatever their ceiling may be, I'd rather wait then ship them off without due process in their favor. Sure LeBron feels the same way, he seems to be enjoying playing with them.
 
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