Let it all out. The Cavaliers Rant Thread

[czvo]

That's true, but the pro-Lue people also tend to forget that he had a healthy squad at his disposal while Blatt didn't; that can't go understated. The Cavs were a juggernaut in the latter-half of 2015 and I fully believe we'd have beaten the Warriors in no more than 6 games fully intact.

And while we're currently a better offensive team, we're much worse defensively than we were under Blatt.

I can't say that Griffin made the wrong decision. I was never really even a Blatt fan. But I can say that some perspective tends to get lost in these discussions.

To be fair, the personnel argument could be used to explain the difference in defense. The second half of 2015 had Moz at peak abilities and three legit defensive stoppers coming off the bench in Delly, Tristan and Shump. By the end of the Chicago series, the Cavs were playing Delly major minutes and starting Shump, which means, more often than not, the Cavs were playing with five plus defenders on the floor.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I understand criticizing Lue for this regular season. What I find unbelievable is when certain posters argue that Lue had nothing to do with the Cavs success in the playoffs last year (the "it was all LeBron and Kyrie" argument) and then those same posters praise Blatt endlessly for the 2015 playoff run. So does coaching matter or does it not? Be consistent.

I think Blatt did a better coaching job in the 2015 playoffs than Lue did in 2016. I still think getting as far as we did in 2015 with a team in shreds physically was incredible.

I'm not saying changing coaches in the middle of last season was a bad move. I'm just commenting on the 2015 coaching job. In 2016...I give Jobu credit for Green getting suspended and Bogut getting hurt.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

To be fair, the personnel argument could be used to explain the difference in defense. The second half of 2015 had Moz at peak abilities and three legit defensive stoppers coming off the bench in Delly, Tristan and Shump. By the end of the Chicago series, the Cavs were playing Delly major minutes and starting Shump, which means, more often than not, the Cavs were playing with five plus defenders on the floor.

Last season is probably the best argument to look at the team under each coach, since they both coached the same number of games. We managed a better record under Blatt and had the 4th-ranked defense, which fell to 8th (I believe?) by season's end.

A lot of that has to do with the faster-paced, more high-octane offense that Lue wanted to instill but I have to believe that the decision to move Mozgov to the bench in favor of Thompson also played a big role (Mozgov is a true center and even debilitated was still 10x the rim protector.)

I recall PriceFTW posting some stats that had us ranked as a historical offense during our late-2015 run...would be very curious to see those again.

 

[Pioneer10]

2015 run should also be viewed in the context of lack of film. Teams take time to adjust and collect enough film to match up with a quality system (see how both Liggins and Williams who have been marginal NBA players looked like much more for even weeks before teams figured them out). We added Mozgov/Shump/JR and no one knew that JR of all those people would run to 6th man of the year form. By the time teams starting getting film on them, the injuries led to a different setup that teams again didn't have much film on. Once the Warriors figured things out they got easily in conrol of the series (fucking David Lee totally blew up our defense)

Add in the 2016 Warriors were clearly better then the 2015 Warriors (particularly Green), I'm not buying that Blatt clearly did a better job then Lue

I'm not even including the Chicago series where Blatt almost lost us that series (the uncalled TO, Lebron changing the final play)

 

[Rich]

He made mistakes in the Chicago series, but I don't know how you can say he almost blew it when Kevin Love was already out and JR Smith was suspended for the first two games. Winning that series in 6 is pretty impressive.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

He made mistakes in the Chicago series, but I don't know how you can say he almost blew it when Kevin Love was already out and JR Smith was suspended for the first two games. Winning that series in 6 is pretty impressive.

I'd say not keeping track of timeouts/not knowing a basic NBA rule and doing something that should have drawn a technical foul and almost surely would have cost us the game and put us down 3-1 is more than a simple "mistake".

He's lucky the ref swallowed his whistle. Probably wouldn't have been the coach at all the following year if that ref doesn't pretend not to see it.

 

[dark2332]

I'd say not keeping track of timeouts/not knowing a basic NBA rule and doing something that should have drawn a technical foul and almost surely would have cost us the game and put us down 3-1 is more than a simple "mistake".

He's lucky the ref swallowed his whistle. Probably wouldn't have been the coach at all the following year if that ref doesn't pretend not to see it.

I think we have to cut him some slack for that timeout....

After all, these NBA coaches are fighter pilots out there.

 

[Rich]

Ok. Blatt coached a terrible playoffs in 2015 and Lue is amazing in comparison.

I mean, terrible defense not-withstanding, of course.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

That's not what I'm saying at all, dude.

I actually thought Blatt coached very well against Atlanta and Golden State in the playoffs. He had a very good game-plan, and we probably win without the injuries. Lue also had a hell of a game-plan last year, coached a great playoffs, and had the fortune of a healthy team. Now, the Warriors team Lue faced was a totally different animal that what Blatt had to deal with, that can't be forgotten either.

Also funny how I don't see any mention of Blatts inability to get the team to flourish offensively the way Lue has, and the single biggest reason that Blatt got fired other than the players not liking him...His total inability to integrate Kevin Love successfully into his game-planning. None of those Ty Lue accomplishments matter though, because the team has played crappy defense during the regular season. Gotcha.

 

[Green Lantern]

The Cavs have played crappy defense, and defense is a attitude and ability.
When they want to play , they can but they get too caught up trying to outscore their opponents..

 

[iamacavalier]

That's not what I'm saying at all, dude.

I actually thought Blatt coached very well against Atlanta and Golden State in the playoffs. He had a very good game-plan, and we probably win without the injuries. Lue also had a hell of a game-plan last year, coached a great playoffs, and had the fortune of a healthy team. Now, the Warriors team Lue faced was a totally different animal that what Blatt had to deal with, that can't be forgotten either.

Also funny how I don't see any mention of Blatts inability to get the team to flourish offensively the way Lue has, and the single biggest reason that Blatt got fired other than the players not liking him...His total inability to integrate Kevin Love successfully into his game-planning. None of those Ty Lue accomplishments matter though, because the team has played crappy defense during the regular season. Gotcha.

1. I can't believe we are having this conversation.

2. The Kevin Love aspect is one that is so huge its unbelievable. The way Lue has integrated Love is incredible. And that was a huge mistake by Blatt.

3. Cavs are resting. They aren't switching on D and are not attacking switches on offense. They are in cruise mode.

4. People must think it's easy integrating 2-3 new rotation players plus 2 starters that were out for weeks or months.

5. Lue probably doesn't have the basketball mind that Blatt has. But he had the NBA experience, respect of vets, and of others around the league. Those make a big difference. And why he is the better coach for the Cavs.

6. Had LBJ not come back and Cavs didn't go after Love. I think Blatt would have been the perfect coach for an 7th-8th seed push in the East. Which obviously was the plan when they first hired him.

 

[bleedwineandgold03]

I remember when blatt was coach it was weird to see love be effective in games. He would never get touches in the elbow he was just a 3pt specialist. Sad to watch really. Since lue took over our offense is been dynamic. This year it just fustrates me the lack of effort sometimes but hey its a marathon not a race. I think blatt did a good job but lue has done a fantastice one so far.

 

[Chris Parker]

I remember when blatt was coach it was weird to see love be effective in games. He would never get touches in the elbow he was just a 3pt specialist. Sad to watch really. Since lue took over our offense is been dynamic. This year it just fustrates me the lack of effort sometimes but hey its a marathon not a race. I think blatt did a good job but lue has done a fantastice one so far.

I'm not being drawn into this but interesting to note that Love received more elbow touches under Blatt than under Lue despite a flurry of them to begin. In the end, LBJ became the recipient of the elbow plays that were already there and which Lue added to. (LBJ ran this stuff with Delly on the floor all the time.) Love's integration imo had as much to do with his mental attitude as anything Lue did on the court. (Lue probably had a lot to do w/mental as he was real Love cheerleader/encourager). Love finally stepped up and demanded the ball and became more forceful. But imo it had very little to do with any adjustments on the floor. They did the same thing in the first quarter both years but could never get Ky & LBJ to pass to him after that and it remained a problem until right before last year's playoffs.

 

[Cavatt]

I'm not being drawn into this but interesting to note that Love received more elbow touches under Blatt than under Lue despite a flurry of them to begin. In the end, LBJ became the recipient of the elbow plays that were already there and which Lue added to. (LBJ ran this stuff with Delly on the floor all the time.) Love's integration imo had as much to do with his mental attitude as anything Lue did on the court. (Lue probably had a lot to do w/mental as he was real Love cheerleader/encourager). Love finally stepped up and demanded the ball and became more forceful. But imo it had very little to do with any adjustments on the floor. They did the same thing in the first quarter both years but could never get Ky & LBJ to pass to him after that and it remained a problem until right before last year's playoffs.

Yeah I don't really want to get in a Lue vs Blatt debate, but I agree that Kevin Love's attitude is the biggest change and not the coaching. Maybe Kevin respects Lue more, I am sure he does. Maybe Lue knows how to talk to him better. Either way, it has been Love's new commitment to D and his smarter play ie moving to open spots on the floor that have helped him the most.

 

[tonyn]

I watched a video last night about LeBron James led teams and since he first went to Miami during the regular season he has a losing record vs playoff teams in the 31st
Then in the playoffs he destroys them.

Also at 32 years old he is having one of his best season's stats wise and he is on cruise control.
This thread should remain dormaint during the regular season