Let it all out. The Cavaliers Rant Thread

[The Human Q-Tip]

Why didn't JR pass it to Clarkston at the end? Wipe open three. Selfish dumbass.

I dunno. It looked to me like JR desperately wanted to pass the ball to someone to take a shot, but he felt rushed because of the clock, just didn't see him, and heaved up a shot because he didn't want to not get one off at all. He was put in a really tough position, especially considering he couldn't give them a chance to foul him or anyone else.

 

[Mr. Orange]

I dunno. It looked to me like JR despearately wanted to pass the ball to someone to take a shot, but he felt rushed because of the clock, just didn't see him, and heaved up a shot because he didn't want to not get one off at all. He was put in a really tough position, especially considering he couldn't give them a chance to foul him or anyone else.

Why a foul would have been two shots right?

 

[BrutX15]

We tried to get Deandre. It was going to cost us Jae Crowder, Channing Frye, Iman Shumpert and the Nets pick, but Altman was willing to do it. The problem is that the Clippers weren't willing to take the shitty salary filler we had to include in the deal - Shumpert in particular.

It should be pointed out that had the Clippers done that deal, we would have lacked the assets that brought us Clarkson and Nance, so we wouldn't have gotten either of them, nor would we have gotten George Hill because Crowder was instrumental in that deal. That means our point guard would still have been Isaiah Thomas, Deandre would be a free agent after this season, and we wouldn't have the Nets pick. I'm not at all sure that's a better situation than the one we are in right now.

Entirely opposite of what was reported. The Clippers thought the deal was close to being done, and Altman backed out at the last second to go with the Lakers deal. Also, it was never reported the BKN pick was even included either. More than likely a very similar deal that was sent to the Lakers, including the Cavs own pick.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-clippers-thought-were-close-220348566.html

 

[Phil Mixtape]

When we exit early and yes that'll be happening soon enough, I wonder if they'll fire Lue right away in hopes of keeping LBJ?

Was just thinking this. Clean house literally the next day and maybe, just maybe, get Fizdale. Who knows though, Bron might already have his plan formulated . . .

 

[BrutX15]

Was just thinking this. Clean house literally the next day and maybe, just maybe, get Fizdale. Who knows though, Bron might already have his plan formulated . . .

So similar to 2010 with Brown? How did that work out? Coach after coach rumored to be interested, but none willing to commit because LeBron won't make a decision if he is staying or leaving... Then ultimately we end up with another Byron Scott? Sounds about right.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Entirely opposite of what was reported. The Clippers thought the deal was close to being done, and Altman backed out at the last second to go with the Lakers deal. Also, it was never reported the BKN pick was even included either. More than likely a very similar deal that was sent to the Lakers, including the Cavs own pick.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-clippers-thought-were-close-220348566.html

You're right about the pick, but not that the Clippers ever told the Cavs "yes."

When Altman visited with James in the Cavaliers' practice facility a week ago, he let him know that there were still talks alive with the LA Clippers on a Jordan deal. What's more, there was significant progress: Altman had ownership approval to send the Clippers Jae Crowder, Channing Frye, Iman Shumpert and the Cavs' 2018 first-round pick for Jordan. The Clippers were willing to accept the trade, but on one significant condition.

Clippers general manager Michael Winger explained to Altman that LA didn't want another shooting guard. He hoped to find a third team that would take Shumpert and his $21 million with draft compensation, and have the Clippers get a center back. Altman and Winger agreed to make more calls to try to find a third team to make the deal work. Winger wondered whether Altman would let him talk to Shumpert's agent about a possible contract buyout, but Altman wanted trade talks to be further along before granting that permission.

Clippers president Lawrence Frank, Winger and Altman had talked for weeks on a trade, but they got nowhere. The Clippers wouldn't take Tristan Thompson, JR Smith or Shumpert in a deal, and that never changed. As Wednesday wore on, Altman became more convinced that a deal with Los Angeles was within reach -- only not with the Clippers.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/pag...their-season-flurry-trades-adrian-wojnarowski

The Cavaliers were willing to make a Jordan deal that included Shumpert. The problem was that the Clippers never got to "yes", because they never actually found a third team that was willing to take Shumpert, and give them a center in return. Had Altman waited evenlonger, the Cavs might have missed out on doing any major deal, so they instead went ahead and pulled the trigger with the Lakers.

 

[BrutX15]

You're right about the pick, but not that the Clippers ever told the Cavs "yes."

When Altman visited with James in the Cavaliers' practice facility a week ago, he let him know that there were still talks alive with the LA Clippers on a Jordan deal. What's more, there was significant progress: Altman had ownership approval to send the Clippers Jae Crowder, Channing Frye, Iman Shumpert and the Cavs' 2018 first-round pick for Jordan. The Clippers were willing to accept the trade, but on one significant condition.

Clippers general manager Michael Winger explained to Altman that LA didn't want another shooting guard. He hoped to find a third team that would take Shumpert and his $21 million with draft compensation, and have the Clippers get a center back. Altman and Winger agreed to make more calls to try to find a third team to make the deal work. Winger wondered whether Altman would let him talk to Shumpert's agent about a possible contract buyout, but Altman wanted trade talks to be further along before granting that permission.

Clippers president Lawrence Frank, Winger and Altman had talked for weeks on a trade, but they got nowhere. The Clippers wouldn't take Tristan Thompson, JR Smith or Shumpert in a deal, and that never changed. As Wednesday wore on, Altman became more convinced that a deal with Los Angeles was within reach -- only not with the Clippers.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/pag...their-season-flurry-trades-adrian-wojnarowski

The Cavaliers were willing to make a Jordan deal that included Shumpert. The problem was that the Clippers never got to "yes", because they never actually found a third team that was willing to take Shumpert, and give them a center in return. Had Altman waited evenlonger, the Cavs might have missed out on doing any major deal, so they instead went ahead and pulled the trigger with the Lakers.

So, that pretty much confirms the exact same thing. There was a team willing to take Shump. It ended up being the Kings. It also states the Clippers were willing to accept the deal with the Cavs own pick, not the BKN pick as you mentioned. Altman jumped on board the Clarkson/Nance deal most likely so he could dump Shump for Hood and Hill instead. What a massive mistake that was...

 

[inliner311]

So, that pretty much confirms the exact same thing. There was a team willing to take Shump. It ended up being the Kings. It also states the Clippers were willing to accept the deal with the Cavs own pick, not the BKN pick as you mentioned. Altman jumped on board the Clarkson/Nance deal most likely so he could dump Shump for Hood and Hill instead. What a massive mistake that was...

The Kings were willing to take on Shump if we took on George Hill's bigger contract. The problem in this situation is we didn't have enough expiring contracts to satisfy both the Clippers and the Kings. I truely believe that the Kings were the only team willing to take Shump.

The only realistic way I figured out to get both Hill and Jordan was to either find a deal to get an expiring from the Kyrie trade exception or find a team that was willing to take Korver for an expiring. The other ways involved too many mininium player for a team to take on with a regular season roster sizes. The problem wasn't our total out going salary but just getting the salaries to match up for both teams with the sizes of expirings we had. That all still discounts finding a center for the Clippers, which might have been Papagiannis.

Maybe the Clippers take on Korver instead of Crowder and Utah still does the same deal for Hood. Or Utah takes on Korver for Hood so we could still use Joe Johnson's contract.

I understand why Koby went with the deal he did. Jordan is an All Star but we become even more top heavy with his salary and have less shooters and flexibility. Is a Hill, Hood, and Jordan trade a much different team than this current team minus Clarkson, Nance, and Korver?

 

[BrutX15]

I understand why Koby went with the deal he did. Jordan is an All Star but we become even more top heavy with his salary and have less shooters and flexibility. Is a Hill, Hood, and Jordan trade a much different team than this current team minus Clarkson, Nance, and Korver?

I just brought him up because the biggest complaint on the forum seems to be Love playing the 5, and Zizic not playing it instead. So yes, to many on here it would have probably been a huge difference.

 

[inliner311]

I just brought him up because the biggest complaint on the forum seems to be Love playing the 5, and Zizic not playing it instead. So yes, to many on here it would have probably been a huge difference.

I get the thinking. I think it creates other problems with shooting, depth, and playmaking off the bench. Zizic and TT become less playable. We have to rely on Calderon to run the second unit. Cedi becomes a must play as he is now the 8th man on the roster. It expands Greens role even more. JR or Hood have to be a consistent 6th man.

The only thing I really would have liked about it is that we would be looking at having 3 all stars to possibly add a 4th in the offseason with trading the Brooklyn pick. That would have been huge but depth becomes an even bigger issue in the offseason.

 

[Triple-S]

Was just thinking this. Clean house literally the next day and maybe, just maybe, get Fizdale. Who knows though, Bron might already have his plan formulated . . .

Yeah I would just approach this offseason with the assumption that (UNTIL HE SIGNALS OTHERWISE) he's gone.

That's how you're going to have to handle it.

if you don't? You're setting yourself up for some really bad times.

 

[Jake]

Fizdale seems like a good option to replace Lue. Hope he's still available when they can Lue.

 

[rabman_gold]

(warning: freaking long rant oncoming)

There's a lot of things I'd address, but there isn't enough space (or threads) to put it. So... I'll put it all in here instead...

I'll start at the absolute top of the team: The owner. As long as Dan's the man, we can't expect the quota year in and year out. But as long as he's in charge, he'll at least be open to tinkering with the Cavs. And if this year ends on a poor note, I think he'll be open to blowing it up and try again... with OR without the king. Having the ability to spend money isn't ever a negative in this sport, except for the one spending it (lol).

Now the GM. I think Koby did okay given the circumstances. But that exactly was the problem: Being put in those circumstances to begin with. Not having a GM in early July probably lowered a lot of those chances for success. Gilbert has to make up his mind and not that happen again... but this is Gilbert we're talking about. Hope this off-season will bear some fruit. But after LeBron makes his decision first.

And the coach. Not really a fan of how it played out. Should Lue have kept going with all of the health issues going on? Did we really have a choice? Whatever. He brought us to the NBA Finals last year after winning it all the previous year. He deserved a second look because it will be on his resume the rest of his career. But that "lightning in a bottle" doesn't always work out and gets burnt out. We're seeing that happen now... Hope these last 2-3 games are worth something to us, and to Lue.

15th year or not. LeBron is still a superstar. Any chance we have to compete is based on his decision this summer. I get the feeling that anything goes this time around. He could easily choose another team with immeasurable promise (with young talent). He could go back to us if we could convince him of our backup plan. There's always a dark horse out there to pry him away, but I can't blame him on making any decision. The only thing I'm sure of is if we don't keep him, we need to blow it up and try again later. Kinda get visions of 2011 Cavs, you know?

Kevin Love might be our #2 at this point, but I don't know how much more of it I can take. Yes, he gets freak injuries out of his control, but I do see a lack of toughness. Even if he doesn't complain, you kinda get it with his body language. He's much better off as a #3 because he can play off of the 2 ball-dominant go-to stars and stick to being effective by going dark. Either get a proper #2 to fill in the Kyrie Irving-shaped gap or move Love and try again...

The rest of those guys haven't shown much. And I don't think it would matter if we decided to play Tristan or Osman or Zizic or whoever the hell we have. It's more of a team issue. I saw Korver giving 150% effort that last game on D and he still had to sit the remainder of the the fourth quarter because he couldn't hit anything worth shit. I get the feeling that Lue's trying to get guys like Green, Nance, and Clarkson a chance to break out of their shell and get on the right track for the rest of the playoffs. But it isn't working. Maybe some youth is needed to inject some life, but it's not that I don't see Osman and/or Zizic giving us valuable time... it's that the rest of the guys they're with can't do much the begin with to get those guys involved. Hell, Daniel Gibson needed to play 15+ games in his rookie playoff campaign before breaking out with a 31 point shooting spree in a Finals-clinching Game 6. Hell, Lue's running out of options because of guys not stepping up, but I don't think it's because he won't play rookies a-la Larry Brown (Olympics-version). It's just how limited we are as a team. Plus, the other skillsets we have from other guys just aren't able to be utilized if under this much pressure.

The difference from a team like this versus one from 2015 is not a talent gap. It's the mental makeup and toughness under a lot of pressure. But also LeBron is still in his 15th year now... I don't think it's by design. The best way to learn about oneself is to look in the mirror and see what's wrong with you.

I hope this team still has something left, but not sure what. At least we got 3 Finals appearances and 1 championship out of it. I'll never forget that experience for the rest of my life and what happened to get there.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

I get your rant and I'm here for a lot of it in terms of how the team got here, but I disagree in terms of options during this series. When you play JR and Korver, you're sacrificing size and defense (Korver tries and is an effective team defender but damn is he a sieve on man-to-man defense). However, both of these guys brought nothing on offense either, which you cannot have for vets who have a ton of playoff experience. They both got absolutely abused by Bog (Korver got served up most of the night then had that awful foul on a three point attempt, JR got pump faked once for a layup then stayed home and didn't bother contesting for the last bomb). Cedi has actually done really well on guys his size outside of Ben Simmons, so I actually do think he would make a difference and would be an upgrade over the other two who are bricking anyways. Unlike Korver and JR, Cedi will actually help box out bigs using his size and rebound because Indy has gotten too many put-backs after a good defensive possession.

I'm honestly just done with Clarkson and Green entirely. Just don't understand why Lue is burying himself on the Clarkson hill (He's got prime real estate on the Green Hill) because it's one wild looping drive after another (Someone should teach him that its possible to pass to Cavs bigs when the opposing big engages for the contest).

The 2015 team took ZERO possessions off and defended like their lives were on the line.

2015 Starting line-up:
Delly - - Had people questioning Curry's abilities
Shumpert - - Put Klay in a body bag
LeBron
Tristan - - monster rebounder, glue guy (R.I.P.)
Mozgov - - Athletic rim protector

Those 5 guys played past their physical limitations regardless of strained body parts, contusions and hospitalization. This team in comparison is a collection of misfits who exhibited the same flaws elsewhere but we hoped they would be better here however they took game 1 off and 3rd quarter of game 3 off so not exactly a team worth getting emotional over when compared to previous iterations.

 

[Return of the King]

Fingers crossed that we actually learn to guard bogdonavich.