Let's Talk about Jesus Christ, Creation, and Whether You Believe or Not

[gourimoko]

Yes.

Do you disagree that science is studying the observable?

Well... mostly. But something tells me you consider the "observable" as things you can physically see with your own eyes; when in fact, "observable" means something that can in fact be determined to exist or not; even if that determination might be exceptionally difficult to ever do, or, the determination must be inferred through reason.

For example, we can't observe the interior of black holes (and tell anyone about the experience after the fact), and yet, we use region as a source of understanding the entire universe in much of cosmology by way of reasoning about the fundamental laws of nature and how they interact..

So why do you disagree with my assertion about Creation?

 

[The Oi]

@gourimoko gets baited in every time.

 

[Skyscraper]

Creationist claim: "how can something come from nothing?"

Such is a relevant question that needs to be answered by atheists. This question has never been answered by atheists.

Surely, the laptop or phone that you are posting from, in all its technological capabilities and resources, took an intelligent mind to put together.

So, with that said, take away the man / mind that created.. we'll just use laptops / phones as the example.. take away the man that created them, and tell me how they came about, but the thing is, the answer of the question has to be found in their self. as in, The answer as to HOW the laptop / phone came about has to be found in those devices their selves. YOU CAN NOT BRING A MAN INTO THE EQUATION.

But the obvious answer is obvious. Obvious is obvious is obvious.

As for ME? I'm fearfully and wonderfully made in the image of God. You? You say you are cousins with apes. So be it.

 

[gourimoko]

@gourimoko gets baited in every time.

I do..

I have too much hope in humanity.. It's a failing of mine...

 

[Skyscraper]

@gourimoko gets baited in every time.

Easy debate there. Lets just hope he doesnt get angry and start cussing and insulting and remains patient and composed.

 

[gourimoko]

Such is a relevant question that needs to be answered by atheists. This question has never been answered by atheists.

But the question has been answered by atheists, I can answer it for you right now if you'd agree to hear me out.

As for ME? I'm fearfully and wonderfully made in the image of God. You? You say you are cousins with apes. So be it.

This doesn't sound like you're wanting to have a conversation about your beliefs, but instead, to evangelize. Are you actually interested in hearing answers to these questions you thought were unanswerable?

 

[gourimoko]

Easy debate there. Lets just hope he doesnt get angry and start cussing and insulting and remains patient and composed.

Believe me.. you don't have to worry about that. I respect your beliefs for what they are, and wouldn't chastise you for having your faith.

 

[Skyscraper]

Well... mostly. But something tells me you consider the "observable" as things you can physically see with your own eyes; when in fact, "observable" means something that can in fact be determined to exist or not; even if that determination might be exceptionally difficult to ever do, or, the determination must be inferred through reason.

For example, we can't observe the interior of black holes (and tell anyone about the experience after the fact), and yet, we use region as a source of understanding the entire universe in much of cosmology by way of reasoning about the fundamental laws of nature and how they interact..

So why do you disagree with my assertion about Creation?

If it is not observable with your eyes, then it is not science. As your brother up there said, it is theory, indeed.

You do realize that these theorys of atheistic scientists are ever-changing, yes?

 

[bigfoot5415]

Im cool with anyone who has strong beliefs in anything; just do not proclaim your beliefs grant you special privileges that are greater than mine.


(Is this the 1st RCF thread on JC? A little shocked here.)

 

[Mr. Orange]

1. I think it is rather universally accepted that Jesus Christ existed. Whether or not he was the son of God, or rather Mary trying to hide some sort of infidelity is another matter.

2. Jesus Christ was a middle eastern man and looked nothing like his depiction today. He was a dark skinned Semite.

3. There had to be some sort of "Creation". That doesn't mean evolution is false. It's almost impossible to believe in it as laid out by Genesis. But there are too many mathematical properties in the universe for me to believe there was not some sort of intelligent creator. Whether or not the Creator still exists, or is all powerful and knowing is another matter. It's possible shit just got out of hand. Also, did I mention that evolution is real?

4. The bible is full of parables and figurative speech. That isn't a bad thing. I actually like church and go semi-regularly even if I don't believe most of it literally.

5. We will probably solve all of the questions regarding religion in this thread. I'm sure of that.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Is this the 1st RCF thread on JC? A little shocked here.

We have a very busy and active Jose Calderon thread. Where have you been?





"If man were by nature a solitary animal, the passions of the soul by which he was conformed to things so as to have knowledge of them would be sufficient for him; but since he is by nature a political and social animal it was necessary that his conceptions be made known to others. This he does through vocal sound. Therefore there had to be significant vocal sounds in order that men might live together. Whence those who speak different languages find it difficult to live together in social unity."

— Thomas Aquinas

 

[Skyscraper]

But the question has been answered by atheists, I can answer it for you right now if you'd agree to hear me out.

This has never been answered. But I am willing to hear your theory on it.

This doesn't sound like you're wanting to have a conversation about your beliefs, but instead, to evangelize. Are you actually interested in hearing answers to these questions you thought were unanswerable?

Speaking about the LORD will always be evangelical. Especially since I am called to the office of an evangelist, I do street preach, traveled throughout most of the East Coast of the United States, just got back from Jerusalem a few weeks ago for a 2 week visit, made possible by the Lord of the universe, Hallelujah. God is wonderful! I pray you come to know Him in all His glory! Amen.

 

[gourimoko]

If it is not observable with your eyes, then it is not science.

Well, that's absolutely not true. We can't observe atoms with the naked eye, we can't observe molecules, or anything that is transparent to light, really. I mean, you can't observe air with the naked eye, and yet, you know it exists. You can infer it's existence as a medium since you can feel it and measure it, right?

So no, the eyes do not determine what is or is not "observable."

As your brother up there said, it is theory, indeed.

You do realize that these theorys of atheistic scientists are ever-changing, yes?

You should note that I hold a masters in physics and was pretty close to pursuing a PhD, so in many ways you're talking about my professors, colleagues, and to an extent myself who/were mostly (almost universally) atheists. That didn't make them the enemy. Moreover, science is ever-changing in many ways, as we refine the theory. That doesn't mean the textbook is rewritten, it simply means it's refined more and more. So this doesn't imply that science is without truth, but in an continuous pursuit of truth.

Does this make sense? Or am I to understand that your entire argument is based around the rejection of science itself?

 

[gourimoko]

3. There had to be some sort of "Creation". That doesn't mean evolution is false. It's almost impossible to believe in it as laid out by Genesis. But there are too many mathematical properties in the universe for me to believe there was not some sort of intelligent creator. Whether or not the Creator still exists, or is all powerful and knowing is another matter. It's possible shit just got out of hand. Also, did I mention that evolution is real?

I don't disagree with much of what you said, but this item in your list is completely false. You do not need a Creator to get the Universe we live in.

 

[JDailey23]

But the question has been answered by atheists, I can answer it for you right now if you'd agree to hear me out.

Ok, what’s the answer?