1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Ratings System

Discussion in 'Ask the Staff' started by gourimoko, Jul 23, 2015.

?

Should we remove downvoting ("Disagree" and "Old")?

  1. Yes

    47.7%
  2. No

    52.3%
  1. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    26,300
    Likes Received:
    37,702
    Location:
    Pasadena, California
    EDIT: It appears necessary I have to remind folks this isn't EAYOR. Please, if you can't say anything intelligent then don't clutter the thread. It's not a lot to ask and it's in accordance with the forum rules, AFAIK. Thanks.

    I figured we should try to have the discussion here in genpop first, and hope for the best, because there are some great genpop posters and I'd appreciate their honest opinions.

    I'd just like to hear if there is any worthwhile merit in the various forms of "down-rating" of posts, i.e., "Disagree" and "Old."


    I think it's clear that I personally dislike both, I don't get their usefulness, and it's obvious that many are abusing the system. If one person gives out an Old rating on a post, he can almost certainly expect a retaliatory Old rating on his future or even previous posts.

    The disagree button really doesn't do anything, imho, that warrants it's negative consequences (that being discouraging dissent). It'd be much more useful if there were competing ideas and then we could see from the number of "Likes" each got as a gauge of who thinks what, rather than posters just spamming the two buttons and then not posting why they disagree.

    I just think it's lazy and disincentivizes active debate and discussion, instead, encouraging like-mindedness and "groupthink."

    A poster didn't understand what I and others had meant by saying that we're suffering from groupthink in another thread and asked for a definition. Here's how Wikipedia defines it:

    Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints, by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences.

    Loyalty to the group requires individuals to avoid raising controversial issues or alternative solutions, and there is loss of individual creativity, uniqueness and independent thinking. The dysfunctional group dynamics of the "ingroup" produces an "illusion of invulnerability" (an inflated certainty that the right decision has been made). Thus the "ingroup" significantly overrates its own abilities in decision-making, and significantly underrates the abilities of its opponents (the "outgroup"). Furthermore groupthink can produce dehumanizing actions against the "outgroup".


    I think this pretty much describes what happens whenever there is some level of dissenting opinion here on the forum, and I think the rating system discourages those who are willing to vocally disagree and assert their opinions. I know quite a few long-time posters would likely agree with this.

    I realize that when we transitioned to XenForo, I was the most vocal advocate for a down-rating system, and @Randolphkeys and @David. both were fairly against the idea. As I said before, I don't think it works as intended.

    It's no big-deal, and it's not the end of the world, nor is in an imminent problem that must be fixed. To me, it's really just an annoyance. I say that because, you take the time to collect your thoughts, write a post, or a rebuttal, but then someone just strolls by and presses a button and that in itself suffices. I just think it encourages lower quality content on the site, that's all.

    So.. discuss.. and please, no bullshit responses like "get over it" etc.. I realize the admins have their hands full, and I'm not demanding change, I'm just asking for a discussion on a discussion board. If you've got nothing to say of value, don't clutter the thread.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  2. Lee

    Lee Gold Star Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    17,019
    Likes Received:
    20,663
    Location:
    Scottsdale
    Speaking of removing things from the board, another thing that should be removed is a 12 paragraph useless post. :chuckle:
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. David.

    David. .

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    19,031
    Likes Received:
    15,295
    Location:
    San Diego
    It just doesn't provide a benefit. Catalyst to more fighting. Greatly reduces the quality of the site and bb convo.

    Do much energy could be saved by mods and posters by just getting rid of it. There is no benefit.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Lee

    Lee Gold Star Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    17,019
    Likes Received:
    20,663
    Location:
    Scottsdale
    bb = blue balls ?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. David.

    David. .

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    19,031
    Likes Received:
    15,295
    Location:
    San Diego
    Yes, blue balls convo
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Lord Mar

    Lord Mar Master

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,538
    Likes Received:
    10,799
    Location:
    Ohio
    Is groupthink the same kind of thing that could result in mandatory vaccinations?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    26,300
    Likes Received:
    37,702
    Location:
    Pasadena, California
    Lol.. you fucking counted the paragraphs?

    Honest question: why are so many folks allergic to reading the English language? :chuckle:
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Rob

    Rob Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    23,663
    Likes Received:
    18,752
    Location:
    Cbus
    The bitching about the down votes is FAR, FAR more annoying.

    And to you, it obviously IS a big deal, because 1/3rd of your posts are bitching about the down votes. Not to mention, the creation of this thread.

    Personally, I don't give a shit about down votes. Keep them, rid of them, I do not care. I just wish people would stop crying about it. I thought people were going to start getting banned for complaining about it? I'd like to see that enforced...

    Something that would be nice to see, that actually matters, is the other positive ratings being accounted for in the individual-post-profile of the poster. Instead, we only see Likes Received for some reason.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  9. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    26,300
    Likes Received:
    37,702
    Location:
    Pasadena, California
    Couple of things:

    1) You want mods to ban folks, yet you come and insult a guy in a thread? Wtf?

    2) You call it bitching when posters who have been around here for a lot longer than you are simply asking to have a conversation about a forum feature?

    3) You talk about quality of posts but your post/like ratio is complete garbage?

    4) The creation of this thread was something I said I was going to do weeks ago so that we could simply have a debate about it. It's far more constructive for the board than what you've provided in this post, is it not? And if not, wtf are you doing in this thread?

    5) You are concern trolling. You say you don't have an opinion one way or the other, but you don't realize you're the only person to have voted "No" so far. You haven't offered a logical reason why you have your position, you just attacked the guy who made the thread while claiming not to have one.

    Look, I specifically didn't put this in EAYOR, it's in Ask the Staff. If you don't have anything to add then there is no reason for you to post. If you don't like my posts, then put me on ignore.

    I said in the OP, if you don't have anything to add, don't post.

    "So.. discuss.. and please, no bullshit responses like "get over it" etc.. I realize the admins have their hands full, and I'm not demanding change, I'm just asking for a discussion on a discussion board. If you've got nothing to say of value, don't clutter the thread."

    This is not Reddit.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  10. David.

    David. .

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    19,031
    Likes Received:
    15,295
    Location:
    San Diego
    One, you have proven that they should be rid of bc the conversation is this irritating to you.

    Two, it's just disrespectful that you put a lot of thought and effort into writing something and sharing and some 12 year old with s brain the size of a monkeys can tell you to shut the f up, you suck, with the click of a mouse.

    The aftermath of ppl piling on, for weeks, bc a vote encouraged another which encouraged some idiot to disregard everything you say and make personal attacks which leads to more of the same, is a bunch of bullshit.

    Sorry for having an opinion on sasha fuckig kaun.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. Soda

    Soda Listen To The Kids Bruh!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    12,076
    Likes Received:
    9,329
    Location:
    CLE
    I personally don't like it because you can get negative rep when you actually put out what you think is a coherent and reasoned post. It serves more as a tool for immature posters and it avoids actual critical discussion. More seasoned posters utilize the rep system correctly, but wtf does it even matter?

    Additionally, some posters will hit "Old" on something knowing that it's negative rep (being petty), then ask why anyone actually cares about the rep they just used to be petty.

    And... I think there are a lot more things that are "bannable" offenses than banning posters for complaining about rep. That ranks about 40th on the list of shit for mods to ban people for right now.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. David.

    David. .

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    19,031
    Likes Received:
    15,295
    Location:
    San Diego
    Yea if you ban ppl that don't like the button before banning people that follow you into thread after that with personal attacks, idk what to say
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  13. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    26,300
    Likes Received:
    37,702
    Location:
    Pasadena, California
    Yeah, I mean, it's astounding.. First post out of the gate and the dude seems to have lost his grip calling me a bitch. Like, wtf? The shit people say over the internet is wild.

    But it's why I prefaced, added, and put a fucking closing statement in my post to say "dude.. I already know you're going to lash out -- don't.. just, save that shit for another time." I'm really just interested to hear reasoning on either side of it, not some dude coming in a thread calling grown men out of their name over the net.

    Anyway.. hopefully we get can have a thoughtful conversation from here on out.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. Rob

    Rob Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    23,663
    Likes Received:
    18,752
    Location:
    Cbus
    1) Where did I insult you? By saying this matters to you? I just don't like seeing so many posts complaining about the rating system. It clutters pages of threads. It's not like I said "you suck" or something. If that's what you took from my post, then I apologize. Was not my intent. You aren't the only one that complains about it.

    Re-read my post and it reads too personal. Was not my intent. Apologies.

    2) Conversation is fine. My problem is not with conversation.

    3) Not exactly the most accurate representation in the world, but whatever. DeAndre Jordan must be the best shooter in basketball because his FG% is 70%.

    4) I said I don't care, but I do care about the complaining posts. This is not an unpopular stance. In fact, mods said they would start banning for complaining posts..

    5) I don't have an opinion. I didn't vote, and will happily provide a screenshot when back on a computer.

    Anyway, I think my stance is clear now. Sorry for the confusion.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. Lee

    Lee Gold Star Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    17,019
    Likes Received:
    20,663
    Location:
    Scottsdale
    Its time consuming and most of us have the attention span of a puppy.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1

Share This Page