So long, David Griffin

[Simon]

Delly is a really good backup point guard and one of the better one's in the league. Plays great physical defense and makes the right plays. Just going to leave it at that.

Did I want the Cavs to bring back Delly? Hell yes. But, for $9M per year? Nah.

 

[kookoo]

I think for the money and assets we had left over when he joined, and being forced to sign Kevin Love before the season started (giving up all our picks and most of our young guys) he's done an amazing job. Look at our payroll... We can't just sign someone to better our team. We were committed to this roster and basically had to pay LeBron, Kyrie, Love and TT the money they're owed. Which outside of TT this season are a bargain compared to what guys are going to be making next season and on.

Yes, he let Delly and Mozgov walk, but this team has always been built to play against Golden State. I don't agree with it because a true center is important in my mind.

The two biggest mistakes he made were taking forever to sign a backup PG and center. Our scouts are awful so trusting that an undersized rookie can back Kyrie up was a huge mistake. BUT, I do get it. He's trying to hit a home run each time he does something. Korver for Dunleavy was masterful. The trade that got us Shump and JR, amazing. Getting Mozgov for free when he was a good player. Well done. Hell, if Bogut didn't go down people would be singing a completely different story. You can just magically get guys during the season for nothing while trying to keep this team intact. And the guys that are disposable have too small of a contract to get anyone useful in return. Shump is our only tradable contract and he's been very up and down so the takers were few and far between. He wasn't going to trade JR after the shit he's been through, but next season I'd look into that if we can get someone of value or a mid 1st round draft pick (not likely though). Bring in some youth Griff.

 

[Meatwad]

From the people I know, the part they love is the gritty, not the white.

But when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Tristan Thompson is the definition of gritty, energized, undersized, overachieving balls to the wall player. Where are the Double T jerseys? What is the difference between the two? (Besides Tristan being worth every dime of his contract, i mean)

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I think for the money and assets we had left over when he joined, and being forced to sign Kevin Love before the season started (giving up all our picks and most of our young guys) he's done an amazing job. Look at our payroll... We can't just sign someone to better our team. We were committed to this roster and basically had to pay LeBron, Kyrie, Love and TT the money they're owed. Which outside of TT this season are a bargain compared to what guys are going to be making next season and on.

Yes, he let Delly and Mozgov walk, but this team has always been built to play against Golden State. I don't agree with it because a true center is important in my mind.

The two biggest mistakes he made were taking forever to sign a backup PG and center. Our scouts are awful so trusting that an undersized rookie can back Kyrie up was a huge mistake. BUT, I do get it. He's trying to hit a home run each time he does something. Korver for Dunleavy was masterful. The trade that got us Shump and JR, amazing. Getting Mozgov for free when he was a good player. Well done. Hell, if Bogut didn't go down people would be singing a completely different story. You can just magically get guys during the season for nothing while trying to keep this team intact. And the guys that are disposable have too small of a contract to get anyone useful in return. Shump is our only tradable contract and he's been very up and down so the takers were few and far between. He wasn't going to trade JR after the shit he's been through, but next season I'd look into that if we can get someone of value or a mid 1st round draft pick (not likely though). Bring in some youth Griff.

Mistakes I feel Griffin made:

• Giving up too many assets to move Jarret Jack when we were bringing back LeBron
• Giving Varejao his extension
• Not re-signing Delly long-term after the 2015 playoffs.
• Settling for veterans rather than looking for youth at the end of the bench

Now, the last one probably has a lot to do with the team and the coaching staff--so I can't really fault him for that. But everything else? Griffin has been very good.

I have no idea if he'll be able to rebuild a team after LeBron fades, but I have faith in him to deliver right now.

 

[kookoo]

Mistakes I feel Griffin made:

• Giving up too many assets to move Jarret Jack when we were bringing back LeBron
• Giving Varejao his extension
• Not re-signing Delly long-term after the 2015 playoffs.
• Settling for veterans rather than looking for youth at the end of the bench

Now, the last one probably has a lot to do with the team and the coaching staff--so I can't really fault him for that. But everything else? Griffin has been very good.

I have no idea if he'll be able to rebuild a team after LeBron fades, but I have faith in him to deliver right now.

All fair points. But as far as steals go, I think we've been lucky to get some good ones. I really wish we had done something with Phoenix though. Shump for something like Tucker and Len would have been incredible.

 

[cavsfever]

Mistakes I feel Griffin made:

• Giving up too many assets to move Jarret Jack when we were bringing back LeBron
• Giving Varejao his extension
• Not re-signing Delly long-term after the 2015 playoffs.
• Settling for veterans rather than looking for youth at the end of the bench

Now, the last one probably has a lot to do with the team and the coaching staff--so I can't really fault him for that. But everything else? Griffin has been very good.

I have no idea if he'll be able to rebuild a team after LeBron fades, but I have faith in him to deliver right now.

He didn't get enough in exchange for Wiggins and Miami's first round pick. We bailed out Minnesota big time with their fan base -- they had a star leaving because of their fuckups and we gave them a star back, first pick in a good draft, plus made it possible to acquire a decent piece in Thad Young. All we got back was Love. That roster had some good young players to chase, starting with Dieng. Yeah, they didn't want to give any more up but we could have waited them out. It's the same reason he gave away too much to move Jack I think -- he was afraid to screw with anything Lebron wanted even the slightest bit.

Also, he drafted Joe Harris when Nikola Jokic was still on the board, and Tyus Jones when Willie Hernangomez was still on the board. In general the only use he sees for draft picks is to trade them. Can't fault him too much because it's extremely rare to be able to hit home runs with late first/second round draft picks, but it does happen pretty much every year, so it would be nice if you had a GM who could do it.

 

[Meatwad]

He didn't get enough in exchange for Wiggins and Miami's first round pick. We bailed out Minnesota big time with their fan base -- they had a star leaving because of their fuckups and we gave them a star back, first pick in a good draft, plus made it possible to acquire a decent piece in Thad Young. All we got back was Love. That roster had some good young players to chase, starting with Dieng. Yeah, they didn't want to give any more up but we could have waited them out. It's the same reason he gave away too much to move Jack I think -- he was afraid to screw with anything Lebron wanted even the slightest bit.

Also, he drafted Tyus Jones when Willie Hernangomez was still on the board. In general the only use he sees for draft picks is to trade them. Can't fault him too much because it's extremely rare to be able to hit home runs with high draft picks, but it does happen pretty much every year, so it would be nice if you had a GM who could do it.

You really think we gave up too much for Kevin Love? When did we rewind to 2014?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Tristan Thompson is the definition of gritty, energized, undersized, overachieving balls to the wall player. Where are the Double T jerseys? What is the difference between the two? (Besides Tristan being worth every dime of his contract, i mean)

The self-loathing is strong in this one....

Overacheiving?? TT was the fourth overall pick in the draft, and had very high expectations because of where he was picked in the draft.

Americans love underdogs -- Of any color. It's why everyone roots for the 16 seed going up against the No. 1. Seeing an undrafted free agent bust his ass and succeed is something that most normal sports fans admire. Unless they hang out with Klansman who only cheer for white guys (you really ought to reconsider your circle of friends).

In other words, TT was always trying to live up to the expectations which come from being a highly drafted player. Delly exceeded his from the moment he made the roster. But if all you can see is a man's color...again, I feel sorry for you. Only Cavs jersey I ever bought was Larry Nance's. Oh -- wait. I can almost hear your retort to that one....

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

He didn't get enough in exchange for Wiggins and Miami's first round pick. We bailed out Minnesota big time with their fan base -- they had a star leaving because of their fuckups and we gave them a star back, first pick in a good draft, plus made it possible to acquire a decent piece in Thad Young. All we got back was Love. That roster had some good young players to chase, starting with Dieng. Yeah, they didn't want to give any more up but we could have waited them out.

Number one, you don't know that we could have waited them out. Believe it or not, teams and people sometimes act against what would seem to be their logical interest if things get emotional.

Number two, "waiting them out" likely would have meant waiting until the deadline, giving us less than half a season to fully integrate him into the lineup for a championship run.

 

[Benedict_Boozer]

He didn't get enough in exchange for Wiggins and Miami's first round pick. We bailed out Minnesota big time with their fan base -- they had a star leaving because of their fuckups and we gave them a star back, first pick in a good draft, plus made it possible to acquire a decent piece in Thad Young. All we got back was Love. That roster had some good young players to chase, starting with Dieng. Yeah, they didn't want to give any more up but we could have waited them out. It's the same reason he gave away too much to move Jack I think -- he was afraid to screw with anything Lebron wanted even the slightest bit.

Also, he drafted Joe Harris when Nikola Jokic was still on the board, and Tyus Jones when Willie Hernangomez was still on the board. In general the only use he sees for draft picks is to trade them. Can't fault him too much because it's extremely rare to be able to hit home runs with high draft picks, but it does happen pretty much every year, so it would be nice if you had a GM who could do it.

Totally agree.

I think part of the issue Griff faced is, teams knew we had all those picks and had time pressure to keep LBJ happy, so every trade teams would just hammer him to get deals done. Griff faced sitting on those picks and having an antsy/pissed LBJ if we missed out on a deal, or having to overpay to get stuff done - if you're a competing team, why compromise when you can likely force our hand?

It's similar to Ainge in Boston right now, teams know he has all those BKN picks so just drive up the asking price in every deal. He wants to "win" the trade so ends up sitting on the picks and not getting anything done.

 

[Meatwad]

In other words, TT was always trying to live up to the expectations which come from being a highly drafted player. Delly exceeded his from the moment he made the roster. But if all you can see is a man's color...again, I feel sorry for you. Only Cavs jersey I ever bought was Larry Nance's. Oh -- wait. I can almost hear your retort to that one....

I'm aware that race is a factor for some fans, whether conscious or subconscious and I'm not afraid to have that conversation. You however, seem to be all up in a fit about it. It's not racist to idolize a tough underdog white guy and him being white be a factor. That's normal. I'm just aware of that and how it may factor in to SOME people's (note: not all) analysis of Delly's play.

Will always love Delly for what he did in the 2015 Finals. Outside of that? His play is nothing to write home about.

Now can we stop going in circles? If you guys want to pin me as some race baiter, that's fine by me. I can live with you feeling that way about me.

Let's get back to Griffin. You guys can have the last word on race and smash those like buttons.

Griffin's moves have far and away outweighed any negatives. RIP Delly. Outstanding GM, 10/10.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I'm aware that race is a factor for some fans, whether conscious or subconscious and I'm not afraid to have that conversation....I'm just aware of that and how it may factor in to SOME people's (note: not all) analysis of Delly's play.

Here's exactly what you said:

And a common theme among suburban white guys, 20 to 95, is that they love the gritty white guy.

Delly represents everything that blue collar middle aged white guys love.

I wouldn't associate with a guy like you off the board, so I'm not doing it here either. Done with this.

 

[Simon]

This thread is such a disaster. Why does race have to be brought up in almost every single conversation in this world?

 

[Randolphkeys]

Let's reset the discussion, let's make it a goal to assess the roster without race coming up. Has Griffin done some exceptional maneuvering? Absolutely:

+Without many assets, he traded for a 2nd round pick, Dunleavy, then Korver.
+He dug DeAndre Liggins out of D League purgatory and received some quality "minutes eater" play early in the year.
+When building the roster at the trade deadline, he got tremendous value from teams when the teams didn't have trade assets.
+He identified who he believes the Cavaliers core rotation should be, rotates the periphery of the rotation because of outside inflating factors like the unexpected free agency spending spree of 2016.

Is he perfect in that quest? I think Shakey is pushing hard for one side like a lawyer while others are pointing out lack of perfection in this roster.

- After two deep playoff runs, the odometer on a few key rotation minutes got too high and they needed more rest.
- The quality of the bench depth took a huge hit for 2/3rds of the season. The cost shows up with how run down the vets at key positions, including TT, happen to look at the end of this season.
- We can turn this into another Delly thread, which I don't condone, but it's clear as day the Cavaliers had poor bench play from the guard position. That was an area where Delly always ate big minutes in the regular season, no matter how you feel about the play on the court during those minutes. Felder just couldn't eat minutes, he wasn't ready.
- It can be argued that Griffin unloaded too many assets early in his run as GM that would have paid dividends this year. Two first rounders for Moz looks worse when Moz is sitting on the Lakers bench and TT has tendonitis.
- I think it's absolutely fair to say Shumpert hadn't given Griff what he expected when he was the centerpiece of the New York trade and the recipient of an 11 million a year contract.

 

[Cavatt]

The counter argument to shump is JR turning out, but maybe not so much this year.

2 firsts for Mix really means like a lot more 2nd rounders which eventually became another first.

I can't remember whether he did the deng and hawes trades, but those were poor win now moves. Should have flipped deng to a Contender for a late first or something when it was obvious he did not want to be around.

Hated paying to get rid of Zeller.