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Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

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Babe ruth makes a bit of sense since in a 160 game season you can compare his stats although I do feel they were inflated with 3 man rotations, no offseason training, etc.

Russell is complete crap to me as the league was so small, but Russell practically invented defense so that is good.

And I get why they don't talk about Otto, different league back then completely, only old QB worth mentioning with todays QB's is Johnny Unitas.

Paul Brown and Otto Graham invented a lot of what’s going on in football today and the past. Just acknowledge the NFL is the only league (of the big 3) that ignores a section of its history.
 
Paul Brown and Otto Graham invented a lot of what’s going on in football today and the past. Just acknowledge the NFL is the only league (of the big 3) that ignores a section of its history.

I agree with all of that. For sure Paul Brown was the most innovative coach. Dare I say he was a Sean McVay type? lmao (he really was though)

And it sucks they act like no NFL coach existed that was any good before Vince Lombardi.

Only thing I cant agree with is saying Otto Graham's achievement is on level with Tom Brady, but to be fair I don't let Bill Russell get the same type of love as Lebron or Jordan and I have him down on my all time great list, so I am not prejudice against football, nor am I ignorant to the NFL's roots.
 
Babe ruth makes a bit of sense since in a 160 game season you can compare his stats although I do feel they were inflated with 3 man rotations, no offseason training, etc.

Russell is complete crap to me as the league was so small, but Russell practically invented defense so that is good.

And I get why they don't talk about Otto, different league back then completely, only old QB worth mentioning with todays QB's is Johnny Unitas.

Norm Van Brocklin, Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, Bobby Layne -- they are absolutely worth discussing. The idea that they aren't as good as today's quarterbacks because the league has changed (i.e. changed the rules to inflate passing numbers) is risible. (Actually Norm still holds the record for the most yards passing in an NFL game).

One could point out that there are tons of college kids who can run faster than Jesse Owens did. Does that mean Jesse Owens is unworthy of respect? Mark Spitz? Roger Bannister?

Russell had 11 rings in 13 years -- Otto had 7 in 10.

It's impossible to directly "compare" athletes from different eras. We can however see which athletes were dominant in their era.

All champions deserve respect. I hold the NFL in contempt for disrespecting their early heroes. HOPEFULLY the 100th Season celebrations will properly honor the men who built the league and had precious little to show for it (due to low pay) other than brutal injuries.
 
Really, it comes down to how the rules have changed so much in the NFL compared to the other two sports in the past 50 years. Basically, Biggest change in the MLB in the past 100 years is the importance of a bullpen. The biggest change in the NBA in the past 50 years (after the advent of the shot clock and dunking) is the 3-point line.

NFL changes in rules have been much more drastic than in baseball and basketball. There is no way you can easily compare the players of the 50s to now. If they changed NFL rules to touch football, you would not be able to compare future players to Tom Brady. It just wouldn't be fair.
 
Norm Van Brocklin, Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, Bobby Layne -- they are absolutely worth discussing. The idea that they aren't as good as today's quarterbacks because the league has changed (i.e. changed the rules to inflate passing numbers) is risible. (Actually Norm still holds the record for the most yards passing in an NFL game).

One could point out that there are tons of college kids who can run faster than Jesse Owens did. Does that mean Jesse Owens is unworthy of respect? Mark Spitz? Roger Bannister?

Russell had 11 rings in 13 years -- Otto had 7 in 10.

It's impossible to directly "compare" athletes from different eras. We can however see which athletes were dominant in their era.

All champions deserve respect. I hold the NFL in contempt for disrespecting their early heroes. HOPEFULLY the 100th Season celebrations will properly honor the men who built the league and had precious little to show for it (due to low pay) other than brutal injuries.

My problem with their rings is LeBron 9 straight title appearances is more impressive than Russell 11 rings because Lebron beat 16 teams, Russell beat 6-14 depending on the year.

Same for Otto, started out only beating 8 teams, ended only beating something like 12. It wasn't the same grind

The athletic events of Owens were the same, one could even argue more impressive as he didn't have proper training facilities like white American athletes did at the time.

But I do understand your point. I draw lines in almost all sports for this reason. Huge fan of the history of the game, but not fair to today's athletes or yestur years athletes to say they are comparable.
 
I suspect that if Baker gets us on a Super Bowl run, the NFL may well dust off some Otto Graham film, because at that point, that's the kind of story they might like to tell. And honestly, he's the only real point of comparison because there's no other Browns QB who carried a team to a Championship game. Frank Ryan obviously was the QB in '64, but he's JAG.
 
My problem with their rings is LeBron 9 straight title appearances is more impressive than Russell 11 rings because Lebron beat 16 teams, Russell beat 6-14 depending on the year.

Same for Otto, started out only beating 8 teams, ended only beating something like 12. It wasn't the same grind

The athletic events of Owens were the same, one could even argue more impressive as he didn't have proper training facilities like white American athletes did at the time.

But I do understand your point. I draw lines in almost all sports for this reason. Huge fan of the history of the game, but not fair to today's athletes or yestur years athletes to say they are comparable.

I never said Russell was more impressive that LeBron or that Otto was more impressive than Brady.

Although Otto did prove his athletic versatility by winning a pro basketball title. Brady couldn't even catch a pass -- unlike Big Dick Nick or Badass Baker.

For the record -- I don't think there has been a QB - Coach combo close to Belichick - Brady and I can't stand either of them. But their success over a VERY long time is undeniable. I would say the same about Auerbach - Russell and I couldn't stand Auerbach. I despise the Celtics and Patriots -- not because they're successful but because Boston arrogance is totally insufferable.

LeBron is IMHO the best ever due to his longevity, strength, speed, agility, explosiveness, and -- not least -- skill. However, I respect the HELL out of MJ because he was the first to prove a wing could be the man (previously you always needed the big -- maybe two bigs).

I actually don't draw lines at all. Sports is too complex for lines. I still can't figure out how an severely injured Eagles team won last year with a backup quarterback. That team is almost certainly one-and-done, but that was as impressive a championship under the circumstances as you will see. (Cavaliers 2016 falls into the same category).
 
I never said Russell was more impressive that LeBron or that Otto was more impressive than Brady.

Although Otto did prove his athletic versatility by winning a pro basketball title. Brady couldn't even catch a pass -- unlike Big Dick Nick or Badass Baker.

For the record -- I don't think there has been a QB - Coach combo close to Belichick - Brady and I can't stand either of them. But their success over a VERY long time is undeniable. I would say the same about Auerbach - Russell and I couldn't stand Auerbach. I despise the Celtics and Patriots -- not because they're successful but because Boston arrogance is totally insufferable.

LeBron is IMHO the best ever due to his longevity, strength, speed, agility, explosiveness, and -- not least -- skill. However, I respect the HELL out of MJ because he was the first to prove a wing could be the man (previously you always needed the big -- maybe two bigs).

I actually don't draw lines at all. Sports is too complex for lines. I still can't figure out how an severely injured Eagles team won last year with a backup quarterback. That team is almost certainly one-and-done, but that was as impressive a championship under the circumstances as you will see. (Cavaliers 2016 falls into the same category).

Really don't disagree with any of what you said.

Personally I like the older sports and cant wait until the Olympics get back to the dress code of the original Olympics.
 
Cant believe you brought that up.

Back in the late 80’s my Uncle Bernie and I were picking up donuts at Squire Shoppe in Ashtabula while I was on a work run with him that day. Bernie worked for a major candy distributor at the time and we happened to have some of the candy sitting on one of the tables while I was reading a comic book.

Lou walked in with a younger man and Bernie recognized him immediately. He yelled out “TOE!” the minute he walked up to the counter. I had no idea who he was talking about. Lou was older then, in his 70’s.

Bernie talked to him for a while about the Browns. Lou saw some of the candy splayed out on the table and said he’d pay for our donuts if we traded him some of our candy. Bernie offered to pay for his donuts instead but he refused.

Bernie jokingly told him I was becoming a Michigan fan and Lou pretended to tackle me into the table and almost fell down. I started crying.

Oh yeah? Did Lou give you his ring to hold? lol

Actually I like your story better.
 
Squirt Shoppe was how I accidentally read that.
 
I agree with all of that. For sure Paul Brown was the most innovative coach. Dare I say he was a Sean McVay type? lmao (he really was though)

And it sucks they act like no NFL coach existed that was any good before Vince Lombardi.

Only thing I cant agree with is saying Otto Graham's achievement is on level with Tom Brady, but to be fair I don't let Bill Russell get the same type of love as Lebron or Jordan and I have him down on my all time great list, so I am not prejudice against football, nor am I ignorant to the NFL's roots.

When they show Bill Russell on the screen during the finals, they show 11 rings when they’re comparing most championships. They even use the words “the great”, the NFL doesn’t even show Otto Graham has 7 rings or even how many NFL championship rings he had. I’m not saying you should say that Otto is better then Brady. You stated that it’s never happened before and it has.
 
Sounds like Baker is in the hunt to be a Madden 20 cover.
 

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