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The Brian Hoyer thread...

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I think mostly everyone is happy we didn't have Hoyer to overachieve and get us another couple meaningless wins yet again this season. Finally, our record truly reflects how bad the team really is.

It always had to get worse before it got better. Hoyer was/is just the captain of the mediocrity treadmill. He's a great backup QB on a contender, or a below average starter on a pretender. Blah.
 
Looking back at the past Browns season, both threads here and conversations with friends back home in Cleveland, I didn't see many others possessing your level of comfort with utter shit.

No one is ever comfortable watching utter shit while it's happening. Even when I know the team should be losing, I rarely actually root for that outcome. However, looking back at what happened, what was a better outcome for us? Winning 5 or 6 games with Hoyer knowing his ceiling is low and potentially missing out on Goff and Lynch, or winning 3 games in a godawful season and being in position to draft Goff? I'd pick the latter every time.

But as I said, tanking sucks, and watching a shitty product sucks. I knew the Cavs were tanking post-LeBron, but it didn't make it any less difficult to actually watch the games. No one wants to see their team blow even when it's in their best interests to do so.
 
I was on board the tank from day one. No shame.

I got on board once McCown was signed, begrudgingly. The ideal would have been competent play and build the rest of the team for a few years. This franchise drafts QBs with high picks every other year. No team wins that way. But, it was clear to me McCown and Manziel was a recipe for scorched Earth front office in 2016. I was right with you at that point.
 
I got on board once McCown was signed, begrudgingly. The ideal would have been competent play and build the rest of the team for a few years. This franchise drafts QBs with high picks every other year. No team wins that way. But, it was clear to me McCown and Manziel was a recipe for scorched Earth front office in 2016. I was right with you at that point.
This franchise hasn't drafted a QB with a high pick since Couch.

Not an accident he was the best QB we've had since the return.

This, to me, was the ideal. Hoyer, McCown, Manziel...none of them were ever the answer.
 
I watched the first half. Could have gone better. Never forget, as all these terrible posts fly up today... you chased him away for a coke head who doesn't give a shit, the brittle old guy who led the NFL in turnovers a game by a wide margin, and the promise of maybe grabbing Bryce Petty. At no time did it work out for you.
Doesn't matter who we have now. Most on here didn't really want Manziel or McCown. We just knew Hoyer wasn't good enough, so why keep him?
 
This franchise hasn't drafted a QB with a high pick since Couch.

Not an accident he was the best QB we've had since the return.

This, to me, was the ideal. Hoyer, McCown, Manziel...none of them were ever the answer.

We are defining "high pick" differently. Let's take the past decade. They blew 2 3rd round picks in 2005 and 2009 at QB and 3 1st round picks in 2007, 2011, and 2013 on guys who were barely backups in their careers. Spend those picks on linebackers and offensive playmakers, maybe a free agent bridge QB amounts to something.

But hey, I'm just suggesting that building an NFL team can be different than an NBA team. The Tank has already taken place, it's all hindsight now.
 
We are defining "high pick" differently. Let's take the past decade. They blew 2 3rd round picks in 2005 and 2009 at QB and 3 1st round picks in 2007, 2011, and 2013 on guys who were barely backups in their careers. Spend those picks on linebackers and offensive playmakers, maybe a free agent bridge QB amounts to something.

But hey, I'm just suggesting that building an NFL team can be different than an NBA team. The Tank has already taken place, it's all hindsight now.
It could be. But, this is the Browns.
 
The "Hoyer's attitude" thing was a derivitive of his belief that Manziel was a waste of the Browns effort, that Manziel wasn't taking preparation seriously, and therefore expecting Manziel to actually beat him out for playing time.

Whatever his excuse, it was unprofessional and detrimental to the team.

On top of that, it was a crappy excuse. The coaches didn't take that job from Hoyer - he gave it away with lousy performance. I recall postiing around the middle of last year that his completion percentage with the Browns matched exactly his college career completion percentage. The guy was just inaccurate, and that was on him.

The bizarre framing of Manziel's failure as Hoyer's fault never made sense, and a great reason for me to dismiss Ray Farmer as a hack a year before many of you dismissed him.

Agreed. But equally bizarre is the framing of Hoyer's failure as being the fault of someone beside himself.

I believe the past calendar year has given definitive evidence that Hoyer, who unlike McCown still has 5+ more years of football in the tank, had a damn good point. Giving Manziel "franchise face" status cost a lot of people their jobs.

I love you man, but this exemplifies the mindset that, unfortunately, came to dominate discussions surrounding our QB's. It was not a question of picking Manziel over Hoyer, or vice-versa. Rather, the question was whether either of those guys were the right one. It was entirely possible to dislike Hoyer's performance without being enamored of Manziel.

In any case, does it really matter if your "bridge QB" has five years left in the tank? A bridge guy is for one year, or two tops, and guys like Hoyer are a dime a dozen.

Chances are, Hoyer is going to remain the bridge QB for the Texans developmental QB again next year as well. He might finally have someone worth mentoring. I'd like to see if Hoyer is able to mentor a guy like Hackenburg, drafted in the second or third round.

For me, this encapsulates the exact reason I'd rather have McCown. We know
McCown is both willing and able to mentor a young QB. Whether it was Manziel or whomever else we acquired, we knew that bridge QB was needed to help the guy learn the NFL game. I think Hoyer is still, in his mind at least, a starting quality QB who wants to win the job outrigt, and will be unhappy if he is benched. Now, maybe he'll change his tune, but that's nothing more than a vague hope at this point.

[
Until then, we are talking about a guy who ended up in the top 15-25 of starting QBs, yet again.

15-25? That's quite a range. And while I might want that guy at 15, that guy at 25 can take a hike.

A guy in his prime, not the shit you were forced to watch this year. Some people have fine wine tastes for the position, I get that... I just don't know how you end up a Browns fan demanding "top 10 play or bust." Hoyer was probably the best you had in the past decade.

The fact that Hoyer is in his prime is part of the problem. He is a low-ceiling guy who seems like he makes excuses for himself whenever things go wrong. It's someone else's fault. And I think that makes him ill-suited to be a bridge QB and mentor to a young QB prospect.

Tl;Dr

Who would you rather have mentoring Goff - McCown, or Hoyer? To me, it isn't close.
 
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I don't know about all of you, but the Texan fans chanting "WEEDEN" Saturday was cringeworthy.

What a terrible couple of options... The guy that has turned it over 5 times or Brandon Weeden.

A terrible coin-flip situation really.
 
Whatever his excuse, it was unprofessional and detrimental to the team.

On top of that, it was a crappy excuse. The coaches didn't take that job from Hoyer - he gave it away with lousy performance. I recall postiing eight around the middle of last year that his completion percentage with the Browns matched exactly his college career completion percentage. The guy was just inaccurate, and that was on him.



Agreed. But equally bizarre is the framing of Hoyer's failure as being the fault of someone beside himself.



I love you man, but this exemplifies the mindset that, unfortunately, came to dominate discussions surrounding our QB's. It was not a question of picking Manziel over Hoyer, or vice-versa. Rather, the question was whether either of those guys were the right one. It was entirely possible to dislike Hoyer's performance without being enamored of Manziel.

In any case, does it really matter if your "bridge QB" has five years left in the tank? A bridge guy is for one year, or two tops, and guys like Hoyer are a dime a dozen.



For me, this encapsulates the exact reason I'd rather have McCown. We know
McCown is both willing and able to mentor a young QB. Whether it was Manziel or whomever else we acquired, we knew that bridge QB was needed to help the guy learn the NFL game. I think Hoyer is still, in his mind at least, a starting quality QB who wants to win the job outrigt, and will be unhappy if he is benched. Now, maybe he'll change his tune, but that's nothing more than a vague hope at this point.

[

15-25? That's quite a range. And while I might want that guy at 15, that guy at 25 can take a hike.



The fact that Hoyer is in his prime is part of the problem. He is a low-ceiling guy who seems like he makes excuses for himself whenever things go wrong. It's someone else's fault. And I think that makes him ill-suited to be a bridge QB and mentor to a young QB prospect.

Tl;Dr

Who would you rather have mentoring Goff - McCown, or Hoyer? To me, it isn't close.
I finally have proof that you are gour's split personality.
 

Way too long, and I read as little as possible. Why didn't anyone post in this thread when Hoyer had his 7 good weeks?

He had three bad weeks: Week one, The Cincinnati game November 16th, and the playoff game. If this were an accurate discussion, there would have been chatter those other weeks.

But look at the posts: They pretty much all fell right after one of his three bad weeks. I really didn't bother with the thread the seven weeks he was killing it. But, the thread becomes a desperate and sad "I told you so" in three weeks of an entire season.

I'm not arguing here... I'm just sad for Browns fans who need this level of shadenfeude to survive the day.
 
I don't know about all of you, but the Texan fans chanting "WEEDEN" Saturday was cringeworthy.

What a terrible couple of options... The guy that has turned it over 5 times or Brandon Weeden.

A terrible coin-flip situation really.

Speaking of flips...
2013-10-1312_55_39.gif
 
I don't know about all of you, but the Texan fans chanting "WEEDEN" Saturday was cringeworthy.

What a terrible couple of options... The guy that has turned it over 5 times or Brandon Weeden.

A terrible coin-flip situation really.
Yeah that was brutal. Probably should have made the move. It will only get more awkward come the off-season- Texas should have one goal in mind, a QB. Have to think one of those two is retained as the backup the goal is to contend.
 
Keys just can't eat his humble pie on this one...
 

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